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I’m sick of all the Morey lovers blaming all of his mistakes on Les

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Old Man Rock, Mar 17, 2012.

  1. Andre Barrett

    Andre Barrett Member

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    I love Camby and think he is a great defensive player. He will help us big time, but he is terrible on offense. 3pt range???? He is a career 19% avg. almost one 3pt made per year. Come on 3pt range.....really???
     
  2. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Morey has in the past says building by tanking is the best way. What do you expect Morey to say publicly when pressed on the issue .."well the owner is geriatric and wont let me rebuild, so I am doing this with one hand behind my back."
     
  3. Old Man Rock

    Old Man Rock Contributing Member

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    Don't know for sure but if I had to guess I would say yes.

    It was a risk reward thing. Yao was a proven superstar. He made us a top defensive team and gave us a true go to guy that teams had to double team. It was a risk reward type thing. We weren't going to get anything close to his real value in a trade. If Yao remained healthy we had a shot at a championship run. Without him we almost made the playoffs. The risk was high but the reward was much higher. And no other superstar was walking through that door.
     
  4. wekko368

    wekko368 Member

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    Just b/c Yao walked off the court against LA doesn't mean his contract did too....
     
  5. Plowman

    Plowman Contributing Member

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    That's what I'm talking about. Many of us clamored for Yao to be shipped out years BEFORE. Finally, when that happened and it became apparent that he was done, there was no move to put that contract on the market ...even later as an expiring.
    Again, we all know Yao wasn't going anywhere. Les was raking in the cheese from business dealings in China.
    Whether it was written into the contract(like the insane 24-7 year round hoops that took him down) or just Les's decision, it was out of Morey's hands.

    One thing we all DO know is that it was brutal being a fan, hoping against hope that Yao would stay healthy the last 5 years.....LIMBO.
    We were banging our heads against the wall.....It was a bad percentage play basketball wise...See Sam Bowie et al.

    And now that we've endured that, Les is going for the quick fix rather than assuring us a new age of Rockets hoops.

    Backpedaling, churning, tying to land the big fish...all the while losing value.
     
    #25 Plowman, Mar 17, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2012
  6. BimaThug

    BimaThug Resident Capologist
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    Fair point, OMR. I actually agree with you on this. Morey readily admits when he's screwed up, and he has made a few mistakes. But the fact is that he only has made "a few" mistakes. Far fewer than almost any other GM. He's one of the best GMs in the business.

    Should they have begun the rebuild in 2009-10? Maybe. But I don't blame the Rockets for making the Martin trade and re-signing Scola to his fairly large deal in the hopes of getting Yao back healthy for one more title run. It didn't work out and maybe didn't even have a high probability of working out, but it was probably more likely than the odds of building back a championship contender and time in the next 5-7 years.

    Now, with the talent and contracts they have (too much/favorable to be bad enough for a top draft pick), the best course of action was to compete and seek to rebuild primarily through trades. That strategy could very well change this summer or maybe next summer.

    Bottom line: OMR is right that Morey shouldn't be given a free pass for his mistakes or for the overall direction of this team. I just happen to think that his mistakes are fewer and farther between than almost any other GM and that I agree with the current direction (and timing of competing/rebuilding) that BOTH Les and Morey are pursuing.
     
  7. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

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    I look at the trainwreck of franchises that the Suns, Magic, Bucks, Kings, Warriors, New York, Blazers, Atlanta have become due to bad management and I just laugh at people who criticize the smart conservative approach we have taken. Our GM is a strength. PERIOD.
     
  8. Old Man Rock

    Old Man Rock Contributing Member

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    But that's just not true! Winning by tanking is a crapshoot. You know how lucky it was for San Antonio to get Duncan, for us to get Hakeem and Yao for Boston to get Larry. How many teams lose and lose and never get that special player.

    It worked out better for LA just to trade for Kobe and Shaq and Later Miami traded for Shaq again. Boston traded for KG and Allen and now Miami signed Lebron and Bosh.

    Winning by tanking is no shoe in. Look at one of the best examples in Portland. They had the brightest future in the NBA with Roy Aldridge and Oden! Now look at them. Even OKC with of the most recent best examples is no shoe in to make the finals and after this year they are going to have to break up some of that team are face an unforgiving luxury tax.

    NOPE! Winning by tanking is not the best way. But I will concede it may be the easiest way, because you do not have to work as hard. You do not have to try to field a winning product and when you finally latch onto a Derrick Rose or a Kevin Love or a Hakeem you can then try to fill around him but for every Derrick Rose there are 10 Darko Milicics or hasheem Thabeets.

    Winning by tanking is not the best way and Morey knows it. The problem is winning by tanking is sometimes the only way a small market team can get a superstar. I believe Morey already knows that and that is why he is driving around with a bunch of crazies in a red pickup truck. Only now he is finding out it doesn't really work. And worse they are not even doing it right. Did you see the Heats Locker room and Plane compared to ours. It's a shame and a direct reflection our team. And even more than that when you consider the minimal cost compared to the value of attracting. It reminds me of the moneyball scene were the players had to pay for their own sodas.

    Anyway now I believe he is going a different route. Acquire all of these assets ih hopes of one day trading for an elite player and then hold them hostage. Hoping they will eventually love the city and team and accept that we can offer you better money with no state sales tax. Plus very affordable luxury homes and a cheaper cost of living. Still upgrade the freaking locker room.
     
  9. flamingdts

    flamingdts Member

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    I honestly don't think Morey is responsible for locker room and plane design.
     
  10. Plowman

    Plowman Contributing Member

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    I hear where you're coming from, but that financial incentive for Les was a huge driving force.

    In the end, it's Les's call.
     
    #30 Plowman, Mar 17, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2012
  11. Old Man Rock

    Old Man Rock Contributing Member

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    Yeah that is probably all on Les. It sounds like him. But it is also a moneyball kind of philosophy. Still I'll give Morey a bye on that one.
     
  12. flamingdts

    flamingdts Member

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    You are associating locker room and plane design with moneyball philosophy... That's not what moneyball is.
     
  13. joesr

    joesr Member

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    /agreed!
     
  14. Old Man Rock

    Old Man Rock Contributing Member

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    Wow you like to argue.
     
  15. flamingdts

    flamingdts Member

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    Ad hominem.
     
  16. Old Man Rock

    Old Man Rock Contributing Member

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    I had to look that up. I thought you were calling me a homo.

    And to be clear I wasn't trying to divert the argument but rather to avoid it entirely because it was a very small point in the overall scheme of things. But since you insist I will explain; in the movie Moneyball there is a scene where Justice is complaining that soda in the clubhouse is not free. He has never seen that before. And Beanes assistant replies...

    Peter Brand: Billy likes to keep the money on the field.
    David Justice: Soda money? Really? Where on the field is the dollar I'm paying for soda?
    Peter Brand: It's hard to see exactly, but...
    David Justice: Yeah.
    Peter Brand: ...it's there.


    Now that may not be exactly what really happen but Moneyball goes past just saving money on salaries. It means cutting costs wherever possible. At least that was Billy Beanes philosophy and he is Moneyball.

    I am not saying Morey practices Moneyball. Just that cutting costs on locker room amenities would fit right in with Moneyball.
     
    #36 Old Man Rock, Mar 17, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2012
  17. delta69er

    delta69er Member

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    The Terrence Williams fiasco, imo, wasn't really Morey's fault. Yes, we lost a first-rounder for him but one must understand that the potential reward for the guy was also through the roof.

    This is a guy who has ALL the tools to not just succeed, but be an All-Star in the league, but unfortunately he feels that coaches don't deserve the right to tell him what to do.

    The only epic fail on the part of Morey was probably signing Trevor Ariza, aka "Handles" to that ridiculous contract (but to Morey's credit, he realized the mistake and shipped Ariza out after 1 season).
     
  18. Ariza4MVP

    Ariza4MVP Member

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    I agree with parts of this only the fact that getting worse is the easiest way to eventually get better.

    KG and Allen were aquired by trading the #5 pick and a good young assest in Jefferson.

    If morey could put crack in another gms drink and get a trade like the gasol for kwame deal then he already would have.

    We don't have the cap space or loyal star like dwade (who came from a high draft pick) to pair a player like lebron with.

    The current top teams in the league all have highly drafted players leading them right now. Chicago-Rose Heat-Dwade Spurs-Has been Duncan until recent years so I'll give you them Thunder-Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Orlando-Howard

    Getting high draft picks do matter whether you want to believe it or not.
     
  19. Old Man Rock

    Old Man Rock Contributing Member

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    How does that not make it his fault. If TWill had blown up everyone here would be praising his brilliance. Why shouldn't he get the blame for that. Yeah TWill's talent was off the charts but so was his lack of bball IQ and inability to be coached. It's the GM's responsibility to know that. He should have done more research. Maybe he did. Maybe he spoke to all the people all the way down to his 1st grade teacher. But in the end he got it wrong and that matters. Still I do agree the reward was great and risk just a first round pick. But I would have liked to have that pick.

    I do agree with Bima, his had more successes than failures and is doing much better than most GM's but as a longtime fan I am still going to hold accountable.
     
  20. davidio840

    davidio840 Contributing Member

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    I don't think you can blame Morey or Les because they cannot get an All Star in here to play for us. The only top players I can quickly think of that played here (that did not get drafted by us or was not developed by us) is Drexler, Barkley and Tmac (I do not count Moses Malone because he came here at the merger). And those guys only came here because we were on the brink of a Championship or they were coming to play with Yao.

    We drafted Olajuwon, Yao, Murphy, Sampson that turned out to be All Stars and Hall of Famers. Given our history, one would think we need to build through the draft. However the predicament Les and Daryl are in is how to keep this team competitive and fill the seats at the same time.

    I know some of you want to see us tank and get a # 1 draft pick and suck for 3 years or whatever to be good again like OKC. Then again #1 draft picks can be busts as well or injury prone, etc. So that is a difficult choice for the FO to make.

    The NBA is a business, not an Xbox game. Les bought this team as an investment and to make money. Sure he wants us to win and get a few championships, but I am sure he wants to make money first then win. Some of you will take that as he is a bad owner because of that, but if you put in $85 million or whatever he bought the team for, I am sure you would want a nice return as well.
     

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