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Hypothetical trading Head question

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Hottoddie, Jul 15, 2007.

  1. Marsarinian

    Marsarinian Member

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    Luther for a 1st rounder? Are you nuts? No way in hell would we do that. If it was top three protected, I'd consider. Lotto protected, hell no.
     
  2. thumbs

    thumbs Member

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    Hey, back!

    IIRC, Battier played a Sixth Man role with Memphis and usually when they slowed down the tempo so they could rest some of the starters -- namely Mike Miller.

    Under the JVG regime his defensive weaknesses -- particularly lack of foot speed -- were disguised by all the help defense. "A" level point guards with athletic wings sliced and diced us because the help couldn't arrive quickly enough. That's why Deron Williams was so lethal in the Utah playoff series.
     
  3. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    How high are you? Novak is averaging 12.5 ppg this summer.
     
  4. hooroo

    hooroo Member

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    If you've been watching you wouldn't be posting that.

    Novak and Brooks are focal points of the team's offense. They're getting all the shots except Novak is hitting it at a poor rate. He also doesn't look like a NBA player out there.
     
  5. New Jack

    New Jack Member

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    Head is a pure shooting guard. He should not be playing a single minute at the point next season. His main competition is Wells and James for backup minutes at the 2 and neither James nor Wells inspire much confidence in me. They’ve blown chances numerous times on several teams, and at this point in their careers (6+ seasons), I don’t know why you would have any more faith in them than you did Stromile Swift. Trading away Head for nothing or only a 2nd rounder, and hoping BOTH Wells and James will pan out, is really rolling the dice. Head is a perfect insurance guy in case one or neither work out.

    He’s a good compliment to Wells. There are going to be games in which Head’s size and lack of versatility hurts us. That’s when having a player like Wells comes in handy. But at the same time, there are going to be games in which Wells lack of speed kills us or his lack of an outside shot is hurting us. That’s when Luther Head comes in handy. Ideally, you want a backup 2 with youth, size, speed, versatility, and an ability to consistently knock down 3’s, but it doesn’t look like we have the assets to acquire a player like that right now. Until then, I don’t see the harm in keeping both players and alternating between them depending on matchups.

    Also, I don’t understand why it is you consider Head a good fit in JVG’s system, yet a poor fit for Adelman. Adelman runs an offensive system with more motion, more movement without the ball, more passing and less dribbling? How would that not be beneficial to a guard that doesn’t dribble well, but does move well without the ball?

    Spacing is important in both systems, so Head’s 3-point shooting would fit in with Adelman’s system nicely. Converting on cuts to the basket are a lot more difficult when the opposing team packs it in the paint.

    Furthermore, Van Gundy plays a strict man to man defense, which of course, is a disadvantage to Head, since it leaves him guarding a bigger player by himself every time. Adelman emphasizes more team defense and is a more open to zone defense, which helps negate bad mismatches defensively.
     
  6. Collector

    Collector Member

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    sura's expire contract should be good offer to some teams, may be used during the mid-season. head had proved him to be good 3pter during 82 games, but for the important offseason, no one knows
     
  7. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

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    We agree Luther is a pure SG with no PG skills. We agree he is a poor man to man defender. I don't agree Adelman emphasizes more team defense than JVG but we can leave that alone (your point on zones is well taken though). I have little faith in Bonzi and if he's in the rotation, that pushes Luther down to #10. MJ is a flake but comparing him to Bonzi is unfair. I expect MJ to do OK this season, certainly well enough to be better than Luther. Neither MJ nor Bonzi are comparable to Stro. Both of their bball IQ's are much higher (which isn't saying much). MJ pressures the ball well while Bonzi can actually guard a big SG like Stackhouse, neither of which Luther can do. Comparing 1/2 court offenses, JVG's "throw it into Yao every time" philosophy benefitted Luther's catch and shoot strength. Under Adelman, thankfully there isn't as much reliance on the long ball. You have more mid-range shooting involved, which can be tough for a short player like Luther who doesn't stop and pop or shoot turnarounds very well.

    Man. I think some people are going to be surprised where Luther stands come the beginning of the season if he's still on the team. Keeping him around for "insurance" is OK I guess. Unless we can trade him for some value because he has little value for us now.
     
  8. SmoothOperator

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    I agree. Too many people always want to make moves for "potential". A second round pick could turn into the next Giniobli, so people want to keep gambling. My advice: don't gamble.

    Same goes with life. How many people throw away pretty good things for a small chance for a great thing?

     
  9. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    I have been watching, he went 4/7 from distance last night.
     
  10. BackNthDay

    BackNthDay Member

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    I don't see Novak making it this year. He's not mentally or physically ready. He couldn't lite up the summer league as 2nd year player.

    I would love to see the Rockets ditch Novak, Chuck, and Deke. The latter 2 cannot score to save their lives.

    I think we're all tired of play 3 on 5 offense and 3 on 5 defense (which is what you get with Luther, Novak, or Rafer in the game).
     
  11. weslinder

    weslinder Member

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    Then you only remember 2003-04. Before that, he started 78 and 47 games. In the two years after that, he started 72 and 81 games.

    Deron Williams was so lethal because he is really good. He was much better against Golden State even than against Houston. He must have really exploited Baron Davis's lack of foot speed.
     
  12. rserina

    rserina Member

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    You know full well that part of the reason Head didn't go to the rim often was that our offense called for him to space out on the perimeter. He has shown numerous times in his first two years as well as at Illinois that he can get to the rim and even finish against NBA defenders. It's not the strength of his game, but it's still something he can do.

    As far as his defense, I actually think Head is better than Rafer. He doesn't stay in his stance enough, but he is quicker laterally and is much stronger against ones who want to back him down. He won't ever be on the floor because of his defense, but he isn't the turnstile you're making him out to be. I hate him defending the two because he gets pushed around miserably, but I didn't see that nearly as much when he defended the one.
     
  13. baller4life315

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    Good post. I understand exactly what you're saying. It's not that you dislike Luther, you just can't see how he fits in on this new team.

    I'm very skeptical about how his playing time is shaping up due to his inability to do much else than shoot. In a perfect world he would get zero minutes at the point thereby leaving you with a 6'3" spot up shooting guard that can't defend anybody. Not exactly ideal. Combine that with his unorthodox shooting form that basically prevents him from ever having any ability to dribble pull up or fadeaway and his weak first step, you wonder if he'll ever sniff the floor for RA.

    Cash in while his value is still high. He's a pretty decent shooter/scorer on paper that's still on his rookie contract. Cheap production is never a bad thing, right?
     
  14. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

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    He didn't attack the rim because he isn't good at it, not because of the scheme. He had two dunks all of last season and I remember them both. Forget what he did in college because his smallness and lack of handles are a bigger issue at this level.

    On defense, Luther is just a warm body. He doesn't have quick hands and cannot disrupt PGs like Rafer can. Both guys are below average defenders at PG. Against any good offensive PG, Luther is indeed a turnstile.

    Adelman will make the call. I still say Luther will find himself out of the rotation if the Rockets keep him.
     
  15. Desert Scar

    Desert Scar Member

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    He tore Tony Parker up too. Deron Williams is just nearly an impossible 1 on 1 cover. Alston and Houston did pretty well defensively against him.
     
  16. Lemarc

    Lemarc Member

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    Correct, with Morey looking for JL# a home! I really dont think Lu is on the trading block. The log jam is being fixed. However, another Tracy or a penertrating/creatin wing player is always in order or a big time rebounding forward ala Gerald Wallace or Shawn Marion type of guy is welcome. Mr. Ming does well with a good rebounding forward (Josh Howard takes alot of pressure off Dirt Nowitski)
     
  17. YallMean

    YallMean Member

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    We need shooters. We need Head more than Snyder and JL3. If we can package these two for another shooter, that will be great.
     
  18. Manny Ramirez

    Manny Ramirez The Music Man

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    I agree with A_3PO on this. I think Luther Head will see his playing time diminish on this team. I think the starting lineup will be Yao, Scola, Battier, McGrady, and Alston (ugh) with Bonzi as the 6th man and Mike James as the closer at PG (and getting some minutes at the 2). Chuck Hayes and Mutombo would be the 8th and 9th guys in the rotation which would leave Head as the 10th man at best. Honestly, I wouldn't mind dealing him for something that could be useful for us in the future and see if Snyder pans out. To me, Snyder is the more interesting and possibly useful player as he cuts and would seem to do well in an Adelman type offense. I don't know if Head would be as good of a fit. Wasn't he considered to be the best NBA prospect coming out of Illinois compared to Deron Williams and Dee Brown? Now, he is the 3rd best player from that team (although he can become better than Dee Brown but I don't think his overall game is as good as Brown's).

    With that being said, I would probably hold onto Luther, mainly for insurance reasons. I like both Bonzi and Mike James, but I do agree that they are the types of guys that could cause chemistry problems. It would be bad to deal Head away for next to nothing and see Bonzi and/or James flame out for us.
     
  19. DonkeyMagic

    DonkeyMagic Member
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    jvgs defense is all about help :confused: :confused:
     
  20. jump shooter

    jump shooter Member

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    Where did you get that news from or is this just your assumption.
     

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