Hypothetical trading Head question

So since Luther Head was the 6th man last year, the Rockets last year were a really bad team? I guess winning 52 games and having the fourth best record in the west means that we have a really bad team. Seriously though, I don't understand why you say that he has a limited upside...he's consistently improved in the two years that he has played for the Rockets. I don't see why he's not going to get even better this 3rd season. Besides, how many games did he help win for us last season huh--more games than Bonzi or Snyder even played in last season...If any guard should get moved, it should be one of those two--NOT Head.

 

Head's shooting is needed on this team and they might still value him as a PG backup and he offers size there.

Now that some of the SL hype has worn a little. Brooks as a late pick rookie on a healthy squad is unlikely to get 20mins a game.

Brooks completely dominates the ball and IMO a good portion of those assists in SL are more of a result of that than him actually creating. He's also streaky with his scoring. Now put those together with sparing playing time... I realise Brooks is going to look like Lucas in some games when his shot doesn't fall.

 

The reason Luther got so many minutes is because our PG situation last year was sorry. It was a festering sore all year that killed us. We won 52 games IN SPITE OF the fact Rafer was the starter and Luther was the backup. Two of the 5 legs in the Rockets stool (PG & PF) were broken, which shows how good the other 3 were. Now that both legs have been strengthened, Luther is now an 8th/9th/10th guy in our rotation. The only improvement he made last year was not hitting the rookie wall and falling off a cliff late in the season, unless you count the PLAYOFFS. He didn't learn to dribble any better and in fact seemed worse to me. He still can't run a team at PG. He still can't guard anyone. He doesn't rebound. To prevent Luther from scoring, just jump out at him when he spots up for a 3 and make him put the ball on the floor because he can't do anything positive once he starts to dribble.

I should have said Luther was a 6th man on a team with a very bad PG situation.

Bonzi isn't going anywhere until he gets a chance to redeem himself. If he flames out again, the Rockets will cut him or make him inactive. A very short leash should be used. Snyder remains the most athletic guy on the team and I think he deserves a chance. However, if we can get anything worthwhile for him, trade him.

 

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i dont wanna trade a guy like him, he is young and could be a future player with the rockets..

 

If the Rocket cut Wells, how foolish will they look for dumping Head for a second rounder?

As flawed a player as Luther Head is, he’s the only backup guard currently on our roster that had even a semi-decent season last year. You act as if the other backup guards on our roster are so vastly superior to him. That just simply is not the case. They’re slight upgrades at best, and they certainly did not look superior last season. If Head is a 9th man at best, then Wells and James are 8th men, and Kirk Snyder is a 10th man at best.

They’re older and they’re not nearly as stable mentally. You know exactly what you’re going to get from Luther Head. You cannot say the same about any of the other guards on our bench. Wells could show up out of shape again. James could wear out his welcome again or shows signs of decline with age. Kirk Snyder has shown less progression in his 3 years than Head has in 2. Instead of having our depth chart etched in stone, Head has earned the right to compete for a spot in the rotation next year. He earned it by outplaying Wells, James, and Kirk Snyder last season.

If you think you can get something significant for Head, either by himself or in a package, make the trade. Otherwise, it’s foolish to throw him away for nothing. He’s not a player that is hurting the team.

 

I was convinced we'd trade Head last off-season when he didn't play in the summer league, but we didn't. I've been thinking he'd be in a deal this off-season simply because he's one of our few assets that realistically might be moved and considered of value. So far, we've made some serious changes to the roster and haven't used him. (or Alston, another guy I thought would be gone after getting James, and another of our few trade assets of value)

Maybe we keep him. Head did improve a lot from his first season. There were periods last year when he was unconcious from behind the arc for long stretches, and we can still use that skill. With Scola added to Yao and McGrady, we're going to have even more open looks on the perimeter. Who knows? Maybe we keep him and he continues improving. Certainly doesn't hurt our depth. Of course, the Rocks may not be through dealing.

 

I can't understand this line of reasoning. Head is a great shooter. Absolutely outstanding. I think some tend to judge a player by the last time they saw him on the court and, since he was awful in the playoffs, some may think that the entire body of his work.

But the guy can shoot, is athletic, can get to the rim, and isn't a bad defender at the one. My thought is that he is too small to defend the two and he is too sloppy with the ball to play the one, but he is a great fit either for a team with a longer one or a team that runs the offense through a wing.

That means he probably is not a good fit for us, but to suggest he isn't any good really needs a point of comparison, as in, he isn't good compared to Lebron James or he isn't good compared to Deron Williams or he isn't good compared to Jason Terry, but in a league where Brent Barry, Devean George, and Jason Williams can start for NBA champions, I hardly think that we can say Head is a poor player, doesn't merit a roster spot, or won't draw legitimate interest from teams where he might fit better.

 

So Luther didn't play that well in his first playoff series, no reason to throw him away for nothing. He had a pretty drastic improvement from his first year to the next when most guys go through a soph. slump. I'd like to see him in camp before anyone makes any sweeping judgements on what his potential will be.

 

I can't believe you still don't think Chuck is a rotation player. The bottom line is he makes us better when he is on the floor. And don't give me this "he can't even make a wide open layup!". For someone who misses wide open layups it's sure strange how he had the highest FG% on the team. Style over substance is your motto.

 

Maybe I wasn't clear or mis-stated. I didn't say Luther was worth nothing. He just isn't worth much any more. He can't get much better than he is because of his physical limitations and lack of skill doing anything other than shooting wide open 3 pointers. With MJ and Rafer on the team, I'm comfortable dealing Luther and expect him to be gone before the season starts. Unless Rafer is dealt and then Luther stays. That's OK too. But only 2 PGs will have regular rotation time. If both Rafer and Luther start the season on the roster I will be surprised. At SG, Tracy is the starter. Bonzi, Shane & MJ can fill backup minutes. Even if Bonzi flames out again, Luther is still the 3rd man down the pole.

rserina, I can count on one hand the number of times Luther "got to the rim" off his own dribble last season. Also, you can't be serious about him not being a bad defender at PG. I'm sorry but he's clearly below average and barely offers any resistance. At least Rafer pokes at the ball and gets steals. Luther offers little resistance and did not improve much over his rookie season.

New Jack, I assume you forgot that both MJ and Rafer are still on the roster. I consider either Rafer or MJ a much better backup PG for each other than Luther. They contrast with each other enough to offer a completely different look to the team. MJ is better than Luther in every respect, especially at defense and attacking the basket. Rafer could lead an offense blindfolded better than Luther could. Both guys could bring the ball upcourt against pressure one-handed better than Luther. If Rafer is traded, Luther's value to the team increases. If not, he isn't needed at PG. In that case, Luther isn't needed on the team even if Bonzi is cut. Other than being warm bodies, I don't see much overlap between Bonzi and Luther.

As I see it, our starters are Yao, Scola, Shane, Tracy, (MJ/Rafer). The first reserves are (Butler/Deke), Chuck, (Rafer/MJ). At best Luther is #9. He isn't first off the bench at any position. Sorry, but I disagree with those of you who feel Luther will get much better. What makes him attractive is his low salary but sitting him on the bench will reduce his trade value.

Please understand it's no big deal to me if he stays because Luther doesn't seem like the kind of guy who would disrupt the team over lack of playing time. He thrived in JVG's stale inside out, over-reliance on the 3 point shot offense. Adelman doesn't believe in that. Look at his old Kings teams and see.

It feels good to have this kind of debate right now. If Morely completes a grand slam offseason by packaging Rafer plus something for a starting PG that definitely pushes MJ into a backup role, we won't have much more to talk about except the rookies.

 

Chuck will start the season as a rotation player. Where did I say any different? My pipedream is Landry will be good enough to push him out during the season.

I still have a problem with him blowing so many layups. It's not hard to have a good FG% when layups or layins are 75% of your shots and they always result from a pass, not from him creating his own shot. This season should tell us where Chuck is going. If he's the exact same guy as last year, oh well. If the hitch is out of his shot and he can beat my grandmother at horse, that is good news for the Rockets and props to Chuck.

 

We need to think in terms of 10 roster spots because the other five will only be used in garbage time. JL3 will IMO be traded for a future second, and Landry and/or Novak will play in the D league for long stretches.

So, with that in mind:

C = Yao, Deke (some Butler)
PF = Scola, Hayes
SF = T-Mc, Battier
SG = Bonzi, Snyder (some Head)
PG = James, Alston (some Brooks)

Those are about the only players we have to worry about. Head will come in for last second treys, but I expect his role to diminish. I forsee Battier being taking the Sixth Man relief role because, in faster paced games, he will be exposed.

Scola replaces Shane as the new glue. If we have too much glue, the Rockets will be stuck.

 

Why do you think Battier will be exposed in fast paced games, but Bonzi will not. Are you saying Bonzi is better at hustling and running up and down the court then Battier. I will be shocked if Bonzi is in the starting lineup and Battier is not. If Bonzi and Tmac are both on the floor together for long stretches, that makes Tmac have to guard the other teams better perimeter players. That doesnt make sense with a Battier on the team.

If Bonzi comes back and plays how he did a couple years ago, he brings better offense then Battier. Thats why he is ideal to come in and provide some scoring when Tmac goes out.

 

I would prefer Bonzi on the second team because you then have a "go-to guy" on that squad. We don't know how Adelman will do a rotation of T-Mac & Yao at all because we don't know what the other players will bring to the table, but having all three of Bonzi, Yao & T-mac on the floor at once would not seem to be ideal. I could see 2 of 3 on the floor at all times, right now if Good Bonzi emerges.

Is there some voodoo thing we can do to ensure we get Good Bonzi this year?

(Good Bonzi as in his head is half on right, and he comes to play team ball.)

Also I think a lot of people are forgetting that we did play Battier at the 4 spot last year, and he may play there some again this year. Not a lot, but sometimes.

 

Why would you say that Luther has not improved at all. His shooting percentage went significantly up from the 3 point line and it wasnt all garbage time threes. He shot very well in the fourth quarter and in clutch situations, and he is only two years into his career.

Besides, on this team, only Battier and James are good three point shooters. It wouldnt hurt to have Luther be able to come in and stretch the defense out. Yes Novak can shoot, but he hasnt been able to show he will be effective at all in a NBA game. Luther has.

As for not being able to get a first round pick, just remember, Sebastian Telfair was worth the 7 pick in last years draft to someone. Im not saying there are teams lined up to give their #1 pick for Luther, but in the same regard, the Rox shouldnt be lining up to give him away for a second round pick either.

 

Battier is not a speedy player who can keep up with the first string opposition. However, he could devastate second stringers who probably are still more athletic but not as smart.

Yes!

 

With Yao, Scola, T-Mc, Bonzi and James, Adelman will be able to keep a "go-to" guy on the floor at all times -- and usually more than one.

We still need to strengthen our PF and SG positions.

 

The reason Luther's shooting percentage improved was because he didn't hit the wall last season, until he choked the playoffs. Luther had a couple of stretches as a rookie that were incredible before he went into the tank. Having Luther as a situational shooter off the bench is OK but if the Rockets trade him we won't miss him much. He doesn't fit Adelman's as well as JVG.

 

Battier guarded the best player on the other team all of last year, and did a pretty good job at it. To say he cant keep up with first string opposition was probably the dumbest thing I had ever read. Of course that was until you said that Bonzi is better at hustling and running the court then Battier. I stand corrected.