Hulu is developing a Hillary Clinton alternate history show

How long will that lesson last?

 

I'm reasonably convinced that if Hillary wins, Tim Walz loses in 2018 and Republicans increase their majorities in the State House and State Senate. And in turn, we end up with Wisconsin style gerrymandering.

 

There’s weird ass shows out there. Not shocking

 

That's possible but Tim Walz is a good politician and he won multiple terms in a district that Trump carried. Even without an anti-GOP mood I think Walz could've still won.

 

We live at a time of very short attention spans. If Biden wins I wouldn't surprise me to see a reactionary backlash. Maybe not in 2022 when the GOP will still be figuring out what they are going to be but I can see it in 2024.

 

It seems to me that the majority of the GOP has gone native and they won't shed Trumpism very easily. Given Trumpism is probably toxic to the middle, and won't die easily, certainly not 4 years I am not sure what 2024 will look like.

Put another way, every national GOP candidate will need to distinguish themselves from Trump, and that alone is alienating to a sizeable portion of the GOP. I am not sure the GOP will figure that out in 2 years, especially with Trump tweeting and exerting his influence until he dies. In fact, he might try to run in 2024.

 

This country is in reactionary backlash since at least somewhere around 1993...

Newt gingrich and rush limbaugh were 2 vocal and divisive voices that really started to kick in their shtick mid 90s..
People were disgusted with gingrich shutting down the government and to me was one of first prominent people to really make it an "us/them" deal.

That goes along with impeaching clinton for a nut stained dress. The repugs really hated bill clinton. Repugs were pulling the pendulum one way and hard.. I initially didnt like bill clinton either and at time wanted bush senior in 1992. I came out of the bill clinton liking him and I think guys like rush and gingrich really started me on the path against them. So just like dumb repug posters here, guys like rush and gingrich only caused me to dislike repug party more. In that sense gingrich and rush are double agents for the democrats and I would not be surprised one bit if rush makes a death bed confession of this.
I mean how can anyone in their right mind not listen to hannity or rush or gingrich and not want to go a register democrat right there? I am still baffled by those that listen and arent aware? Are they really this dumb? Its actually painful how stupid and I now watch fox or listen to rush like I would a comedy skit.

So some time around 1993 the butthurt started amongst repugs and it became all about party over country.

Fox news really came into its own late 90s and guys like rush et al pushed the narrative. I believe the constant stream of these divisive repug talking points was enough to squeak in bush in 2000.

So as bush w sneaked in ( which made it more illegitimate and more pendulum pull) then it became even more partisan and in my opinion it began the full pendulum swing in earnest the other way.

So a bunch of people hating bill clinton swing it to bush then those that hate bush swing it to the dems again....

First though 9/11 came soon enough .. The whole fear thing with 'tear' kept bush in for 8 years. 8 years!!After 8 years of complete tomfoolery and things like the wmd false war stuff.. people were done.

We went from the extremes of bush and all the stuff with that..the backlash so fierce that obama became president. Pendulum the other way!!

no way would obama have been voted in if hadnt been for all the bush w shenanigans of the ridiculous 8 years ( I am still completely disgusted with using 9/11 to somehow make money for bush and cheney. It is here at this point that I decided the repug party had no soul)

Then we had 8 more years of fox news hating on while obama was president.. and there was enough of the pendulum swing the other way that all the angry fox , rush and hannity people who actually vote went and squeaked in trump like bush in 2000.. Pendulum the other way!!

So hate bill clinton->leads to bush -> leads to hate bush -> leads to obama -> leads to hate obama ->leads to hate obama -> which leads to trump -> now ?? Yup hate trump !!

Now here we are again and biden practically only needs a heartbeat and he will be in.

I believe the lesson learned here is that we need to look at middle as boring as it might be. Biden seems to be pretty boring and normal which is a sad comment on what we need..we need an "administration" to administer stfu and no create drama..its like a ref ..best when not noticed..

Besides trump shooting himself in foot every 2 seconds it is a great sign that biden isnt seeking drama. Right now we are all collectively as a country that house with trash in yard and cops being called all the time drama.

It will be hard through this with polarizing people.. and im all for biden picking a safe bore.

This is going to go each way like it has since around 1993 and the repugs just happened on a doozy in trump.

Expect a republican in 2024 to win unless biden is still alive and somehow manages to stabilize in a normal way.

Lets hope in 2024 if biden is too old and we can enter a new camelot with cuomo for 8 years or cuomo for 8 years starting 2028.

Problem with cuomo is he is triggering the repugs fierce already and hes just a governor ..with that he well may end up being too polarizing himself... So in some ways biden really is great choice..a disruptor like yang or sanders is cute but at this point it needs to be about boring no drama.

After the craziness that was caligula it was a stable Claudius that brought relative peace.. Perhaps that is biden? Warning though that nero came next lol...
Maybe hopefully cincinnatus is the better story for biden..but when he was gone though ..things went to sh**it too..

Lesson learned? My opinion is not too much bad in a normal boring placeholder.
people like drama and all the same things now as then 2000 years ago

 

A lot of this depends on how bad of a beating Republicans take in this election and in 2022. Whether it happens now it will happen that the GOP will face a reckoning. Demographics alone will make it very difficult to continue to be a national party based on xenophobia and "traditional" values. I'm sure once Trump is off the scene there will be some other figure that will capture the attention of the Nationalistic Rightwing. I'm sure if Biden wins there will be a strong reaction to him. My guess is there will be an ugly fight within the party with bitter primary battles between those who want to continue the rhetoric of Trump and those who want to expand the party.

 

I agree there has been a back and forth cycle but one thing we've seen in State races and in Congressional races is that since the 1990's the GOP has had the upper hand. While there have been backlashes the strategy laid out by Gingrich and other leaders of the party in 90's has paid off. By winning elections at all levels they've controlled much of the machinery of the elections which is why in the last 10 years they've controlled both houses of Congress except for the last two years even though they haven't won a total majority of votes since 2010.

The analogy Caligula might be right that the excesses of the Trump is damaging the party and as shown in 2018 overwhelming the party of machinery. Caligula was so excessive though that his own Praetorians killed him and installed Claudius. If that analogy were to hold though then we would've seen GOP Senators who had protected Trump turn against him in impeachment like we saw GOP Senators turn against Nixon. We didn't and that figurative Praetorian guard is still loyal to Trump.

 

The praetorian guard is literally the republican party right now. It is so wild how similar as I read more and more about roman history in this quarantine.

It is crazy how many times they could have gone back to or away from the emperor/guard setup and over and over they didn't. All to stay in power and the most telling is never was it ever really about what is for the best.

Dems arent much better in that sense ..and its as much a lesser of 2 evils (repugs attract all the evils unfortunately or we might be more balanced)

 

Let me ask you think - do you ever think a candidates like Bush, McCain, or Romney will be able to win the GOP nomination in the next 10 years given their rejection of xenophobia and nativism?

It is entirely possible the GOP is a far right party for a generation. Once you go full native, I am not sure it's easy to go back. Trying to think of examples in history of a party that is far-right moderating itself.

 

I think by 2030 they will definitely need to change if they want to win the Presidency again. Once Texas goes blue it's all over for winning a national election for the party, even with the electoral college. The party won't be dead and it will still hang on in places like AL, the Dakotas and Wyoming. It will win House seats in rural areas but even with all the gerrymandering they've currently done there aren't enough EC votes if Texas goes to the Democrats.

I think the only long term hope is to get back to a Reagan style party that is small government, pro-defense, still against abortion but when it comes to immigration it at least isn't a major issue if not pro-immigration.

 

Yes there are a lot of disturbing powers. Once Ceasar seized power it was going to be very difficult to return to a Republic. The growth of the empire and essentially the military industrial complex of the time prevented the Senate from returning to the prominence that it could be. In the same way in the US over the last 70 years we've seen a growth of an Imperial Presidency. It started under the Democrats with FDR and has grown under both parties. As the US became a superpower, technology has increased and the growth of the military industrial complex has added more power to the Executive branch. This is why I think it's so important to stand up for the separation of powers and for Congress to assert itself as a separate and equal branch.

 

I don't know, when you look at the fresh crop of people running for seats in the GOP - they aren't moderates - they are running on Trumpism. And because they still are strong in many states and districts, it's hard to see that changing.

With so much of the party beholden to a far-right base, it's hard to see a Reagan style leaders winning a primary against a far right nativist. Trump after all was elected to be the GOP's representative even though most thought he couldn't win the general election, and it took a fluke of many circumstances for him to win, from Russian interference, to a very flawed candidate in Clinton, to a bizarre campaign strategy, Bernie Bros sitting out, and of course the emails. And now the the country has had a taste for Trumpism, it seems unlikely to want more of it, yet the base still wants more of it.

I think the train has left the station for the GOP returning to what it was even 8 years ago much less Reagan. Maybe you are right and if the Republicans get their ass whooped in Nov and 2022, party leadership will start to run more moderate candidates in suburban districts. Still it seems it's going to be a disconnect going forward.

 

I just don't see the cult of personality with Hillary that you see with Trump. I've never met someone who loves Hillary. They just accept her.

 

We need to stop praising Reagan was one of the good Republicans. That glorified actor caused a lot of permanent damage to this country.

He was also the precursor to the GOP electing people based on shear charisma without zero nuance in policy discussion. People forgot how clueless Reagan was with basic economic principles and how government worked. He was Trump light. He was Trump before Trump.