Howard Dean's Message to the Troops: You Won't Win

jo mama. that was amazing.

if only truth and facts and stuff mattered. but if it did i'd vote you for in 08.

 

that google thing up in the corner of my firefox browser really makes it so easy to back up your arguements w/ "facts" and "quotes" and stuff.

however, i realized a long time ago that most of our neo-con friends dont have much use for such petty things.

 

It is truly horrifying to see so many people espouse the "if you don't think the president is 100% right and is divinely appointed by jehova himself, and is the most perfect being ever then you are a terrorist guilty of treason" viewpoint here. I expected more. The opinions espoused by my fellow republicans put many of us to shame. So little thinking has been used because they have fallen for the administration's stance that it is immoral to question them.

 

Great posts! Needless to say, I got a kick out of this one.



Keep D&D Civil!!

 

This is a question I've been wondering about myself.

 

And yet you keep on posting.

You ask us to support the troops because it is life and death. I would agree but there is no value to our rights if they aren't there even under extreme situations. Also what you forget in your rant regarding politicizing the situation is that war in a democracy is always political. If you don't buy that then there is no value to the idea that democracies will make us any safer because then the leadership of any democracy could launch and fight wars without the support of their people.

 

but there are far more stories of failure, loss, death and destruction.

AMERICANS THEMSELVES TORTURED IRAQIS IN THIS WAR.
ONE groupd of iraqis was getting tortured, thats less than being tortured in bosnia, chechniya, darfur, kashmir, and who knows where else in the world.

and yet the part about "thousands of them being killed" is still news to me.

they still are dying of murder and starvation. if anything all we did was lift the same sanctions that we had put on that country earlier. and now, we have introduced this area to terrorism as well..

very successful story there

what a cause! they dont even choose to die for this cause and yet you applaud their deaths.

there were NO terrorists in IRAQ before the war, and also dont minimize the deaths of civillians in this war due to THE SOLDIERS. As sad as it is MANY Of them HAVE KILLED INNOCENT IRAQI CIVILLIANS, JUST BECAUSE THEY WERE THREATNED BY THEM FOR ONE REASON OR ANOTHER.

 

I ask you is it only bad When Dean and Democrats say we can't win?

Or when Bush said you can't win, was that demoralizing also?

 

Apparently they do have the courage of their convictions, and thus included a plan, and conditions for withdrawl.

Apparently the GOP in Congress are chickens to debate a serious plan and thus turned the bill into a mockery.

 

They had schools, hospitals, running water, and more power under Saddam than they do now.

They were tortured and killed under Saddam. They are tortured and killed now.

But they do have a shot at freedom. That is the one good thing. However, when we undermine freedom by buying off the Iraqi press it doesn't help.

In the future maybe you can try harder to research facts, rather than tell us how we should support the troops, or shouldn't support the troops. I have a nephew in the Marines who is doing his dessert training and leaves to Iraq in MArch. I certainly don't need you to tell me how to support the troops.

 

courage? you know Murtha is a vet right?

did you enlist?

 

No, they didn't have Murtha's proposal to vote on. The GOP didn't allow them to debate what Murtha put forth, instead advancing a preposterous, twisted resolution that had nothing to do with what Murtha suggested.

Had the GOP possessed the "courage of their convictions" then there wouldn't have been any reason to twist Murtha's words in such a way.

 

They weren't afraid to vote for what they believed in, but the GOP resolution was not what they believed in. They believed in Murtha's proposal, which the GOP quickly killed for political advantage. If the GOP truly believed that Murtha's proposal was not the right way to do things, they should have voted on the resolution he put forth. Instead, they acted like cowards and ran away from Murtha's words as fast as they could.

 

Andy:

It's obvious that the republicans in the crowd are incapable of understanding that little tidbit you keep mentioning regarding Murtha's proposal. I've seen you and FB mention it repeatedly. Some people only want to hear what they believe...

 

...or what Faux News tells them to believe.

 

ive asked the same question over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

never can get a response

 

Response? What response? You will be called pigs or bastards, but response to questions or facts or logic or reasoning? Come on, it takes much much less time for the Rockets to win the championship.

 

basically he was asking if it was okay for anyone to criticize the war? would you call anyone who criticizes the war a pig or b*stard?

thanks in advance for your response

don't wait till the rox win the championship

 

Twist Murtha's words? Sorry andy, i respect his past service, but if you've listened to him speak at all, the poor man just seems confused now. I heard an interview on NPR recently and he was so incoherent it was embarrassing. then there's this:

[T]here's a civil war going. We're caught in between a civil war right now. Our troops are the targets of the civil war. They're the only people that could have unified the various factions in Iraq. And they're unified against us. --ABC's This Week, 12/4/05

[W]hy should I believe what the CIA says about what's happening in Iraq, that there's going to be a civil war? First of all, al Qaeda was wrong. It was wrong on the nuclear stuff. It was wrong on everything they have said over there. So why should I believe that there's going to be a civil war? -- same show, a few moments later.

and this:

[T]he military won a military victory. They got rid of Saddam Hussein. ...[snip] ... Now, it's got to be a political win. They have to win this politically. The Iraqis themselves. We'll stay there forever. The Iraqis are never going to say turn it over. We can't allow them to say when it's gonna turn it over.--This Week, 12/4/05

You're gonna see the Iraqis clamoring. Listen, anybody we support in Iraq loses the election. And so they're gonna be clamoring for us to get out. -- same show, a few moments later.

clearly this is a man who doesn't know whether he's leading or following, and the democrats are blindly falling into line, oblivious to where they're going. Dean, Kerry, now Murtha? you guys sure know how to pick your heros.

 

If Murhta was so incoherent and his proposal was so outragous, why was the GOP so threatened that they had to twist his words and force a vote on a resolution that had no parallels with his plan?

Of course, your heroes are the ones who misled the public to drum up support for a war. They are the ones who are being indicted for money laundering and taking bribes. They are the ones who have rewritten the rules governing torture and they oppose language that would end torture performed by the United States. Fantastic heroes.

And these are the people that are supposed to be restoring "values" to the White House and Congress.


As far as the NPR interview, give me a link to the entire interview so that I can see those quotes in context. You are aware of the incredible inconsistency in Bush's statements, right?