Howard Dean: The Candidate for Confederate Flags and Assault Weapons

I personally believe everybody should have at least three.

 

I dunno. I'm sorta against criminals and those with mental disabilities having assault weapons.

Also, don't you think that giving three guns to a parapalegic is just plain wrong?

 

Of course, a parapalegic could use an assault rifle...I meant a quadraplegic.

 

Follow up.

Dems Press Dean on Confederate Flag Flap
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20031105/ap_on_el_pr/democrats_debate_14

By RON FOURNIER, AP Political Writer

BOSTON - Howard Dean, under fire from his Democratic rivals, stubbornly refused to apologize Tuesday night for saying the party must court Southerners with Confederate flags in their pickup trucks.

"Were you wrong, Howard? Were you wrong to say that?" Sen. John Edwards challenged the former Vermont governor in a hot, hip campaign debate.

"No, I wasn't, John Edwards," Dean shot back.

The exchange was the sharpest of the night in a debate that generally veered from issues such as Iraq (news - web sites) and the economy, and into areas of interest to younger voters and New Englanders.

One touched on past use of mar1juana and another on the Boston Red Sox.

Edwards, Dean and Sen. John Kerry (news - web sites) said they had used mar1juana in the past. Rep. Dennis Kucinich, Wesley Clark (news - web sites) and Al Sharpton said they had not. Sen. Joe Lieberman (news - web sites) answered the same, although he apologized as he did so. Former Sen. Carol Moseley Braun declined to answer.

Kerry of Massachusetts, drew the Red Sox question, and was asked whether he would have removed Boston's starting pitcher at the critical point in last month's Game 7 of a playoff series with the New York Yankees. He said he would have — that he was "throwing things at the television set" urging the manager to do so.

Clark, asked about gay and lesbian rights, said he would give homosexuals "the opportunity to serve in the U.S. armed forces." Under a policy in effect since the Clinton administration, gays are permitted to serve in the military if they do not disclose their sexual orientation.

Rep. Dick Gephardt (news - web sites) was the only absentee as the Democrats vying to challenge President Bush (news - web sites) gathered for their sixth debate in two months. The Missouri lawmaker chose to campaign in Iowa, site of the lead-off caucuses on Jan. 19.

The eight Democrats met in Fanueil Hall, a building steeped in history — and an unlikely venue for a debate unlike any other.

That was clear from the outset, when moderator Anderson Cooper of CNN appeared on stage wearing an open-necked dress shirt — and invited the nationwide television audience to submit questions by text message. In addition to CNN, America's Rock the Vote sponsored the debate.

The candidates, too, dressed down for the event. Lieberman wore a shirt and tie but no jacket; Edwards favored an open-necked, blue-and-white checked shirt, and Clark and Kucinich opted for turtlenecks.

The Democratic hopefuls sat in a semicircle, the audience as close as it would be for a television entertainment program. That's what the debate seemed to be at times, as when the candidates were permitted to air edgy videos designed to appeal to young voters.

Sekou Diyday, 25, a supermarket buyer, confronted Dean with the question about the Confederate flag and comments the former governor had made over the weekend in an interview with the Des Moines Register.

"I was extremely offended," he said. "Could you please explain to me how you plan on being sensitive to needs and issues regarding slavery and African-Americans after making a comment of that nature," he said to applause from the audience.

Dean responded by quoting the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr., as saying it was his dream that "the sons of slaveholders and the sons of slaves" could some day sit down together.

Sharpton observed that Dean had failed to answer the question, then said the former governor had misquoted King. "I don't think you're a bigot, but I think that is insensitive, and I think you ought to apologize to people for that."

He added, "You are not a bigot, but you appear to be too arrogant to say 'I'm wrong' and go on."

Dean defended himself and his remarks, telling Sharpton, "We're not going to win this country ... if we don't have a big tent. And I'm going to tell you reverend, you're right. I'm not a bigot."

"We need to bring folks together in this race, just like Martin Luther King tried to do ... And I make no apologies for reaching out to poor white people."

Edwards jumped in moments later, saying, "Unless I missed something, Gov. Dean still has not said he was wrong. Were you wrong, Howard? Were you wrong to say that?"

"No, I wasn't, John Edwards," he shot back.

Dean added that people were wrong to fly the flag, which he called a racist symbol. But he added, "I think there are a lot of poor people who fly that flag because the Republicans have been dividing us by race since 1968 with their Southern race strategy."

 

Perhaps. There can be sensible limits. Limit it just like we limit voting. Felons cannot vote. Mentally infirm persons cannot vote. Hmmm...perhaps we're on to something here.

My response to this is being typed after a bout of outrageous laghter. That was funny dude.

 

Dean's comments could cost him the race. He appears to not get that and/or he appears to be incapable of apologizing. Not very presidential in either case.

 

Since when is mental stability a requirement for the President?

BTW, all this means is that another Democrat will whip Bush's tail next November, Sharpton not excluded.

 

This whole thing is much ado about nothing. The other Democrats are desperate enough to stop Dean they've stooped to T_J-like tactics, trying to find a gaffe anywhere they can. Dean screwed up last night by not taking the opportunity to speak to what he planned to do for race relations. He does have good stuff on that. Instead he opted to address the GOP's racially divisive Southern Strategy. When he first rolled out the Confederate flag line, back in February, he received a rousing standing ovation. And one of the ones standing and applauding was his enemy Terry McAuliffe. This is a non-starter. They're gonna need something a hell of a lot better than this to stop Dean.

 

God I wish I could bring myself to vote for Dean, I really do, but many, if not all, of his comments on foreign policy scare the living **** out of me. If Dean held Gephardt's foreign policy views, combined with Dean's social/economic beliefs, he'd be a worthy candidate, hell he'd probably be the favorite.

Sadly, the perceived Democratic front-runners (Dean, Clark, Kerry) have no chance of beating Bush.

 

Which comments are those, Buck? I'm voting for him -- more than for any other reason -- because he doesn't hold Gephardt's foreign policy views. While Gephardt was in the Rose Garden shaking hands with Bush and on the House floor arguing that the time for debate was no time for debate, Dean was the only declared candidate arguing against a rush to war. He was the only one saying we didn't have enough evidence of a serious threat, that we needed to work with the UN and that we didn't have enough info on what the war would cost in terms of money, lives and alliances. And now they're all saying that stuff. He was right on Iraq when everyone believed it was political suicide. Gephardt was wrong on Iraq when everyone thought it was the only politically expedient position to take. And he was the single most powerful Democrat in squashing a debate most Democrats and most Americans now wish they'd had. He's number last (after even Lieberman) on foreign policy for me, for that reason alone.

And with respect (you know I like you), you're flat wrong about none of those guys being able to beat Bush. Clark's coming off as an empty suit to me, but Dean, Kerry and Clark (in that order) can all beat Bush. Watch and laugh. That's what I'll be doing.

 

This is a non-starter.

Misspeaking is one thing. Not apologizing is another. I think Edwards hit the nail on the head. Dean may be too arrogant to admit that he made a mistake.

BTW this is a good thing to happen to Dean early on. I don't see the other Democrats as desparate by going after Dean on his racist comments. The GOP would not be giving Dean a pass on it later either. This is the type of trial by fire that all Presidential candidates have to go through. How they weather the storm will show if they have the temperament to be President.

I liked Dean before this controversy. I no longer do, that is until he apologizes.

 

It is far too early to tell. I suspect that the stronger Democratic candidates have a fighting chance.

As an aside, can you see a Presidential debate between Bush and whomever, where Bush is grilled on Iraq? I will actually be very surprised if Bush agrees to a debate. He has $250 million dollars to rebuild his image, so I do not see Bush wanting to suffer damages, potentially irreparable, from a debate.

 

No Worries: Dean did screw up last night. But he screwed up because he doesn't think he did anything wrong and isn't inclined to apologize for something he doesn't think was wrong. Where he screwed up was in not handling the whole thing more deftly. His basic point is sound as it was in February when it was cheered. He should have been slicker last night. He wasn't. That was his fault, not the thing people are telling him to apologize for. And that was a cheap, pandering shot by Edwards. They can't get him on issues, so now they're turning to personality. I might point out here, no one is doing a better job of not admitting mistakes than Bush. And I would dearly love for those guys to raise the Confederate flag as an issue in the general election campaign.

To your other point, if Bush ducks a debate with Dean he is dead in the water. No modern presidential candidate can get away with refusing to debate. And if he agrees to one, he's deader. This is among the reasons I hope Dean wins. He'd eat Bush alive in a debate. He'd give us everything Gore didn't in a debate and make Bush accountable for the last few years.

 

From what I've seen, I'd have to say, Lord help me, that Al Sharpton's take was the most accurate; it's silly to connect Dean's statement with bigotry, as there is no evidence at all that he is, but it probably was an insensitive remark on a few levels, and something ( Sharpton calls it arrogance, I might call it political entrenchment) has made Dean appear to be too stubborn to back down and acknowledge the possible perception of insensitivty his remarks might have had.


It's a storm in a teacup, but Dean would have been better served with a " that's not at all what I meant, but I can see how it might have easily been misunderstood in soundbite form, and for that I apologize.", ie Ceaser's wife, instead of his usual attack dog response to most things.

 

Batman,

Dean needs to apologize about the confederate flag comment. His big tent implication is extremely valid, but using the confederate flag in that comment actually alienates black voters. What if 10% of the black voters stay home next November? Does Dean have enough votes to still safely win? One would hope that Dean would not want to wonder down this trail of broken logic.

WRT Bush and the debates, chosing to not debate is a gamble but Bush has $250 million to paint a smiley face on it. He just may get away with it. As mush as it pains me to say, I would not bet against Bush given his track record.

 

My problem with the comment is more of his depiction of the South, like we all still live on farms and call swimming pools "cement ponds". Dude needs to quit watching Beverly Hill Billies and actually take some time to learn about how much we have in common with them thar Yankees over yonder.

The comment to me was more offensive to the people he was trying to appeal to, white southerners.

 

You don't!?!?!?

I thought that " Can someone move this here car engine, I's wanna takes me a bath." was a commonly heard saying down there...

 

which reminds me of

Roadside Art
from East Asheville Hardware
..............................................

Well I'm gonna drive to West Virginia
Buy myself a shack
Put my good car in the front yard
Block it up on jacks
Then I'm gonna take me a couple wheels off
Roll 'em down into the creek
I'm gonna bust a couple windows
Fix it with a plastic sheet

I got tired of working for nothing
Working every day
Bills made me a poor man
But I found a better way
I just built myself a sculpture
A monument to Chevrolet
And now I've got a gallery
Where my front yard used to lay

Well I'm working on a '49 Ford
I got it hidden 'round in the backyard
But it's only going to be a few days
'Til it's rusted just enough to display
And when I roll it on down by the road
I'll have a monument to Henry Ford

Brought to you by Eastern Mountain Appalachian Roadside Modern Art
Yeah, modern art

So bring your car to West Virginia
Buy your own favorite spot
Get you a big old front yard
Start yourself a parking lot
You can roll 'em up on one side
Roll 'em over onto the roof
You can push 'em down into the creek bed
You can leave 'em on the avenue

But hey now, don't you go thinkin' that's just a car
Listen here buddy, that's a work of art
That was America's finest form of transportation
Don't you think it needs just a little celebration
That's all I'm trying to do

Brought to you by Eastern Mountain Appalachian Roadside Modern Art
Yeah, modern art

 

He's doing it right now on CNN.

Or at least they just showed a clip from a speech today.

He called the analogy "clumsy" and apologized to blacks and poor southern white voters.

But even as he apologized and said it was a clumsy way to start the debate and point he was trying to make, he still said the debate needed to be addressed.