1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

How widespread is the use of anti-Islamic material in the US military?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Mathloom, May 14, 2012.

  1. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2008
    Messages:
    18,336
    Likes Received:
    18,341
    Tidbits from article:

    http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes...&utm_term=plustweets&utm_medium=MasterAccount

    On a more positive note, after reading this article I'm beginning to warm to the idea of pilotless drone attacks.
     
  2. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    47,713
    Likes Received:
    36,649
    I don't know about the other branches but in the training material and cultural awareness classes that a Marine infantry unit receives before deployment to Afghanistan is all pc. When it comes to at least our unit the higher ups never made it in to a religious war to motivate the enlisted ranks.

    However lower enlisted would often make derogatory comments about Islam in a non serious manner. I wouldn't say there was much hate in it rather than ignorance.
     
  3. OlajuwonFan81

    OlajuwonFan81 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2008
    Messages:
    2,671
    Likes Received:
    186
    I find it ironic that the majority of the armed forces support Ron Paul. It just goes to show you that these wars are not even supported by the people that are out there doing the heavy lifting.
     
  4. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 1999
    Messages:
    61,615
    Likes Received:
    29,040
    "Islamists" <---- What is this and how is it different than a Muslim?

    "This barbaric ideology will no longer be tolerated. Islam must change or we will facilitate its self destruction." <---- replace Islam with Christianity in this sentence and the war would escalate from our side 10 fold.

    Rocket River
     
  5. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2008
    Messages:
    18,336
    Likes Received:
    18,341
    I hate that word, because despite what the dictionary says, humans do not agree with one definition, generally leaning towards whatever theory fits their values.

    When I see the word Islamist, I immediately assume it's a Muslim who believes in a very far right version of Islam, which is usually the group that believes it ok to spread Islam by war. Given their conservative views, you can hardly blame them, this is pretty much what every Caliph post-Abu Bakr did. This is the group which believes Sharia should rule the world (whatever version sharia they happen to follow), and are willing to use any amount of force available to them to achieve it.

    Unfortunately, IMO the term is used so loosely that it is only right maybe 10 or 20% of the time. This is because the media seems to enjoy blurring the line between Islamists and non-Islamists. This gives room for the racists and bigots and religious extremists to further propagate that Muslims are evil, going to hell, must kill them, etc.

    What's a Christianitist then? A Judaist? Hinduist? These all exist too, but Islamists just happen to be the most relevant right now.
     
  6. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    68,210
    Likes Received:
    45,879

    Signed by:

    Ayaan Hirsi Ali

    Chahla Chafiq

    Caroline Fourest

    Bernard-Henri Levy

    Irshad Manji

    Mehdi Mozaffari

    Maryam Namazie

    Taslima Nasreen

    Salman Rushdie

    Antoine Sfeir

    Philippe Val

    Ibn Warraq

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4764730.stm
     
  7. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2008
    Messages:
    18,336
    Likes Received:
    18,341
    Ibn Warraq is not a real person btw, it's a pen-name used by various writers historically to be critical of Islam without revealing their identity. Look it up.

    I can not see what expertise some of these people have.

    Ayaan Hirsi Ali is a nobody intellectually speaking. She was a victim who has endured a lot of suffering, and she serves a great cause by speaking for people who can't/don't speak. But she has no more (and I would argue far less) expertise and knowledge of Islam than the average Muslim, yet she always seems to involve herself in highly technical aspects of Islam. She is completely out of her depth as an analyst of Islam and it would serve her better to focus on helping people who need help, rather than taking personal vengeance.

    Her life is no different than many many Muslims today, and if she is any authority on the matter, so do they. The key thing is that she holds a very extremist view of anti-Islam, whereas most others do not despite going through the same unfortunate experiences. This is what gives her popularity among some.

    As you listen to what she preaches, and the people who like her and follow her, you will realize she fills a very common role in society. She fills the role of the person who, because of their appearance and origin, almost hate their origin and hate the things which their followers link to their appearance. If you hate Muslims and hate Arabs, it makes it easy and fun to become a supporter of Ayaan Hirsi Ali since she is vicious and non-constructive in her attacks on Islam IMO. Obviously, this doesn't apply to all of her fans, but even the ones who it does apply to will obviously respond "yes maybe some people, but not me!"

    I don't like these letters. They imply that extremist Muslims are not welcome in a world where extremist Jews, extremist Christians and extremist anythings are functioning members of society, and in many cases functioning members of government. I look at the American political spectrum, I see people who strongly preach war/murder and rely on religious ideals, and I see those people getting a lot of votes. In the Israeli government, there are extremist Jews, extremist Muslims.

    IMO we are not dealing with a problem that is specific to a religion. We are dealing with a threat that is a TYPE OF PERSON. That is, a conservative person who believes in extreme values. If we are serious about getting rid of these TYPES of people, I'm totally on-board.

    But I am not about to join the latest witchhunt for this type of person within one specific religion. We have done this to Jews. We've done this to Christians. Now we're doing it to Muslims. Usually, the people doing the pushing are also the extremists on your own side. So it's extremist Muslims that preach hatred of extremist Christians. It's extremist Christians that preach hatred against extremist Muslims. So on and so forth. This is just another episode in a series of extremist-led violence. The only determinant of these episodes are: who is the most beneficially exploitable, and who has the best weapons. One set of extremists will have the powerful weapons, the others will be the most explotable. One is terrorist, another is freedom fighter. Over and over again. Same propaganda, different decade/century.

    Whenever there's a group which is ready to recognize that extremists exist everywhere, they can count me in. They vary according to tons of variables such as culture/religion/education/poverty/circumstances. This will lead to some of them being crazy armed fighters, while others will not need to fight personally and will kill people from behind their mahogany desk wearing a crisp suit with expensive cufflinks and a red button which says "kill". To me, these people are the same, but the variables in their life led them to different places. It wasn't even in their control where they would be born and most of what they would experience, so why would I differentiate between these two?

    Wake up and stop falling for this BS. The only witchhunt worth pursuing is against the people who hate all of us, rather than just some of us.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. AMS

    AMS Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2003
    Messages:
    9,646
    Likes Received:
    218
    lolllllllll
     
  9. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2002
    Messages:
    14,304
    Likes Received:
    596
    It's probably less "anti-islamic" as much as it is "pro-christian". Google can provide all sorts of alarming stories regarding the latter ideology in the military.
     
  10. gwayneco

    gwayneco Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2000
    Messages:
    3,459
    Likes Received:
    36
    This is some sort of joke right?
     
  11. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2008
    Messages:
    18,336
    Likes Received:
    18,341
    I have no doubt that Pro-Christianity and Anti-Islam overlap at times, though both are equally troubling. Similarly, extremely Pro-Islam contains some anti-Christianity.

    The real question is: why on earth do soldiers need to know about the religion of the people who they are commanded to kill? It is clear that this information is not there to assist in negotiating, or to somehow show respect to culture and customs.
     
  12. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2008
    Messages:
    18,336
    Likes Received:
    18,341
    No it's not a joke, it's wrong wherever it happens. Everywhere. Even if all Muslims in the world preached hatred of Christians, it does not mean the secular US military/government should preach hatred of Islam.
     
  13. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    68,210
    Likes Received:
    45,879
    If true, why do you think they have to hide their identity?

    Right, most of the people who signed this statement with their real name have been threatened with death by your fellow Islamists.

    And now you are holding it against someone if they do not want to disclose their identity (if what you say is true)?

    Interesting.
     
  14. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    68,210
    Likes Received:
    45,879
    It's hilarious how the propagandist Mathloom tries to paint Islamists as victims.
     
  15. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    68,210
    Likes Received:
    45,879
    Several of them have been tortured, mutilated, threatened with death in the name of Islam. Is that enough "expertise" for you? :rolleyes:

    She is your intellectual superior by leaps and bounds, and a morally upstanding citizen who is not a fanatic follower of a cult. That's already several advantages she has over you.

    She is speaking out against Islamists. That's brave. It does help people who are similarly threatened as she is/was.

    Hilarious. The extremists are those who mutilated her, who threatened her with death, yet, you dare to call her an extremist. Unbelievable.

    Nope, she tells the truth. She doesn't hate her origin. She understandably hates that she was mutilated and threatened with death, and she hates the oppressive nature of certain interpretations of Islam towards women.

    Of course, you as someone who has previously tried to blame a rape victim for her plight, would not understand that.

    That's like saying a Holocaust victim who criticizes Nazis is "vicious and non-constructive". Of course, a Nazi would say that.

    You can keep making up excuses.

    Your repeated attempts to paint Islamists as victims are noted. They are a perversion of what is actually happening.
     
    1 person likes this.
  16. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2005
    Messages:
    42,698
    Likes Received:
    39,328
    TL:DR summary of thread

    Mathloom thinks American military is painting war on terror as a religious holy war and that they are breeding hate against Muslims. ATW responds with his usual round of replies. Mathloom thinks one of the sources ATW mentions is a crazy nutjob for hating the people who mutilated her and thinks Islam is a victim of a global smear campaign. ATW rolls his eyes.
     
    3 people like this.
  17. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    68,210
    Likes Received:
    45,879
    Good job :grin:.
     
  18. moestavern19

    moestavern19 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 1999
    Messages:
    39,003
    Likes Received:
    3,637
    Or...

    Mathloom: Muslims not bad!

    ATW: Muslims Bad!
     
  19. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1999
    Messages:
    124,091
    Likes Received:
    32,983
    And now, the latest from the bully pulpit that is Islam......back to you Mathloom.

    DD
     
  20. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    68,210
    Likes Received:
    45,879
    Fixed that for you, kid.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now