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How to Support a Tanking Team

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by lakersuck2, Feb 22, 2021.

  1. treyk3

    treyk3 Contributing Member

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    I think the right move is to trade every asset outside of Rockets picks, Brooklyn picks, Wood, Tate and KPJ.

    Try to get a young star. Whether it's MPJ or Collins.

    That team can win or lose as many games as they want I don't care. I just want more players under 25
     
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  2. sydmill

    sydmill Member

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    A few things that have been stated multiple times:

    1) Most are not advocating for the Rockets to tank for multiple seasons.
    Speaking for myself, I was not advocating for losing until the Harden trade. That deal essentially closed any window to be competitive with the best teams in the NBA for the foreseeable future. Obviously James was getting dealt but when you come away with draft picks (that are really only valuable if a current juggernaut faulters) and a guy whose best days are behind him (but who wants large and long money in the offseason) you have to view that as conceding the short term. So either you are playing the long game or you are just giving up. Even with that deal though I could have been in the lets compete camp until I realized that the high pick this team would invariably "earn" was going to OKC unless it was top 4. I, as a fan, just cant see any other way moving forward. I, for one, am actually glad this is happening now during a season that is pretty f***ed up with Covid (shortened season full of missed games).

    Regardless, this team doesnt have to be bad for that long. First round picks *should* produce rotation players. Teams f*** it up when they gamble on upside. I think when you are drafting for a franchise player there is some chance there just because those players are so rare. That is why having a high pick is crucial. You cant count on LeBrons, ADs and KDs being passed over by multiple teams. You dont necessarily need pick #1 but you surely cant have pick #20 and expect to get such a player. But if you are "shopping" for a specific skill set (shooting) or to shore up a specific need (size) I think you can reduce the bust factor considerably.

    Finally, the Rockets are going to have multiple avenues and multiple chances to return to relevance (I define relevance as a team that competes with the big dogs or is just some experience away from that) quickly. With 2 first round picks this season and 3 next as well as an abundance of future picks and some expiring deals which could be valuable I think a smart GM with a good strategy can turn this team around before we start to give our picks outright to OKC in '24. Again, this is all just my opinion.

    2) Tanking guarantees nothing.
    Yes, the Rockets could lose and lose and lose and get the #1 overall pick for years and never win s***. But the odds are that if they did get those picks that wouldnt happen. If you are inept (which is what many of the examples bandied about here are), you can be super lucky but never good. If you aren't you can be good even if you arent lucky. Tanking for this season is necessary for the reason I explained above but it is certainly not a guarantee for anything. It just ups the odds that you can be better which is all that you can do.
     
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  3. rockets13champs

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    Yeah this is what a lot of people don’t understand how to watch a tanking team. I’ve seen so many Twitter posts of @Clutch i know this is new to us. But when ur watching a tanking team you really have to only look at small little positives. Cant be going after a team Bc they aren’t playing as good as contenders. The only thing I watch for is if Tate is playing good, if role players are playing good to increase trade value. And if KPJ and KMJ and building amazing team chemistry in Gleague. Other than that u have to look at the season as u do with the offseason. Ur constantly waiting for moves to acquire more young pieces.

    spend ur time on daily

    1. tankathon- scary Bc there’s a high chance ur outside the top 4 than within
    2. Scout prospects- make a ranking
    3. Think of trades that we can acquire more young pieces
    4. Watch international games to find more Tate like players (EuroLeague, Turkish, and Australian)
    5. Watch harden as a neutral fan
     
  4. rockets13champs

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    I think the way we’re set up. We can only time 1 time maybe twice. Not more than that
     
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  5. lakersuck2

    lakersuck2 Member

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    I'll be honest with you, I don't think either is a star. John Collins just seems 2 inches too short for what he tries to do and his defense is more than suspect. MPJ has real real talent and I'd say has a better chance at stardom but he seems like such a weirdo. Like a Gen Z version of Kyrie who thinks he's ready to be Jordan now. Buuuuut even with all that said, I'd still agree with you and throw every vet we have for either of these guys. Cause that's what tanking is. You keep throwing your old assets at dice rolls until you get lucky on a few. Even with my doubts I'll throw vets for anyone with potential to be something.
     
  6. treyk3

    treyk3 Contributing Member

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    If either had no question marks, neither would be available.

    Mo Bamba, Cam Reddish are other guys who could probably be had for cheap.

    I want some upside guys.
     
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  7. apollo33

    apollo33 Member

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    I hate that we don't have our pick
     
  8. lakersuck2

    lakersuck2 Member

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    Throw in Culver, Malik Monk, Ntilikina, Jackson Hayes, NAW even. Right now the Rockets are the island of broken toys but for old dudes. I'd gladly be that for "busts" 23 and under.
     
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  9. treyk3

    treyk3 Contributing Member

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    Looking at the Knicks and Hornets.


    Miles Bridges could be added to that list.


    Kevin Knox could be added to that list.
     
  10. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    You're bringing up these signings AFTER the fact. The Wolves did acquire KAT and have been trying to build around him but it has failed. Many times now. All of these guys they acquired, outside of Butler, were way past their primes too, they cannot get a prime FA because their franchise has been a joke. Every 'franchise' player they've drafted, from Garnett to Love to KAT has moved on to find success elsewhere and they repeat the process over and over again.

    PHX, btw, is built around Booker, not even a top 5 pick, proving my point that you don't need to tank or have a top 5 pick to find franchise players.

    Also, you speak for yourself about Tilman, not every player that's playing in the NBA. According to this logic, we shouldn't even tank because no one will ever want to play for Tilman so what's the point?
     
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  11. jerryclark

    jerryclark Member

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    This is definitely one hard team to support. Not only do they suck so much but they are all so unlikeable
     
  12. lakersuck2

    lakersuck2 Member

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    I'll pass on Knox. No tunnel vision Kuzma types please. He was a projected 2nd rounder at the end of the college season and only jumped into the lottery during the workout stage. Only the Knicks were dumb enough to take him that high. He's CBA bait.
     
  13. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member
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    We do have our pick.
     
  14. Astrodome

    Astrodome Member

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    damn I just simulated the lottery 10x on tankathon. We got the 3rd pick twice. OKC got our pick the other 8x.
     
  15. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member
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    I can't watch this team, you know maybe 1 guy will be with the team when we are good again.
     
  16. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    I was never against trading Ego, Dipo, or Tucker. We need to trade vets for picks or young prospects, but we should keep a vet or two on the team, that's going to be Wall for this season.

    What OKC is doing is playing their young players but they also acquire veterans to mix in with their young players. They are not actually trying to lose games though.

    They're doing what I described earlier.

    Playing young players...acquiring draft picks. Eventually, they'll hit lucky. Hell, it may be this year if we give them our pick and they keep their own. How did they do this? Funnily enough, by not tanking, they rebuilt CP3s value and did what? Traded him for a first rounder and Kelly Oubre who they also flipped for a first round pick. If they tanked this doesn't happen, instead, CP3 doesn't play because of some minor injury and they keep him away from the team.

    CP3s stint with the Thunder PROVE they weren't tanking, they took a vet and rebuilt his value and they were likely hoping to do the same thing with Horford.

    Rockets can acquire more first round picks by playing well, why does this matter? Because the draft lottery is flattened out, first round picks have a lot more value now.
     
  17. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    I did it 10x too and we got our own pick 3x. IIRC right now it's at 30 or so that sounds about right.
     
  18. lakersuck2

    lakersuck2 Member

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    I've been saying this even back then. The Kings and the Wolves never tanked. They kept trying to rush the rebuild by giving up future assets for current ones and signing vets to stupid long contracts to try to make the playoffs and ultimately that's what kept them bad.

    Here:
    https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/teams/Minnesota-Timberwolves/17/Transaction_History/2018

    You can look at every transaction by every year by any team. Show me even just a 2 year stretch where these teams were committed to youth and the future. They'd suck by accident for a year and luck into a top pick then immediately pussy out and throw stupid contracts at vets to try to get back to the playoffs.

    When the Wolves lost Jimmy what did they do? They went around and got Thibs, signed Teague, Gibson, and Rose. Did they tank for Edwards? No they traded their future 1st for DLo and other assets for Beasley, Juancho, James Johnson, and Rubio. They weren't trying to suck they just did. Are you wondering why George Hill is making 20M now? That's cause the Kings thought they were ready to make a playoff push 3 years ago so they gave Hill an 80/4 and Shubert 15M a year when Fox was still just a blossoming sophomore point guard and Bagley was coming in as a rookie.

    You need balls to tank. You need commitment. If you're gonna chicken out and rush the rebuild you're gonna end up like these teams. You don't get to Kings, Knicks, Wolves status by tanking. You get there by being bad at competing.
     
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  19. apollo33

    apollo33 Member

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    Only top 4 protected and that's very limiting. I will hate the feeling of losing games and end up giving the payoff to OKC
     
  20. Rockets4Life13

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    This is a great post and needs to be pinned. Good job.
     

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