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How To Make A Point

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by MacBeth, Jun 28, 2003.

  1. MacBeth

    MacBeth Member

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    It is possible that the matter could be most easliy and effectively adressed by merely altering Francis's mindset...I, for one, would prefer that to be possible, thereby making all of our theories in here moot...but I doubt it.

    I know what you're saying re: the All Star Game...and there was a period right after that where I was somewhat hopefull as you remain...but I think Steve's status on the team, and the fact that he was deferring to those with more were contributing factors. I'm not ruling it out...God knows JVG should make an attempt...but i doubt if any of the stuff you mentioned would exactly be news to Steve. It is possible that he just hasn't been held accountable for it, and if so JVG's doing that could change everything...but I think that it's at least as likely that playing the way you suggest is no longer 'natural' for Steve, if it ever was, and he may lack the abilites to do so long term. Remember, at the All Star game, he wasn't facing any kind of organized or enacted defensive effort.
     
  2. MacBeth

    MacBeth Member

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    Certainly better finishers will make Steve's decisions look better. But you can argue the reverse as well. Remember three things about the ASG...he was playing with elite finishers across the board, as he never will with the Rockets, and that makes a pg look better...he was playing differently because he was playing with bigger names, which also won't be true during the regular season...and finally, he was doing it against ASG type defense, where my granny could pull off a play or two...
     
  3. MacBeth

    MacBeth Member

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    That's a point I mentioned in passing, but should have concentrated on more...

    Every team needs a "Man"...I feel that Yao is our 'Man", and that JVG neeeds to really reinforce that idea with Francis while not alienating him. I would call Steve the leader of the pack on the break, and the qb in the halfcourt...but make it plain that we are a running team, and that Yao is the stud running back we're going through. Allow Steve to keep his title, and his place as one of our two crucial ingredients...but make it plain that this is now an inside out team.
     
  4. MacBeth

    MacBeth Member

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    A la..

    It's a possibility, but of course the degree that you become an inside out team, while bringing in yet another decision making perim player is questionable. It would involve, I suppose, drastically altering Steve's role, and that's one way to go. I have tried to find a middle ground, which makes most effective use of the weapons we possess, while limiting Steve's apparant weakness in some areas.

    But maybe I'm just hoping for la vie en rose...:D
     
  5. MacBeth

    MacBeth Member

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    It was the U of Washington...and I declined. I had actually pretty much decided only to go that route ( footabll schol.) if one of the really great academic shools called, especially Stanford...or if Hawaii called. I have no rational excuse for why Hawaii was an exception I was willing to make, but can you imagine going to school in Hawaii to play football? Would have been really sweet...

    Anyways, none of the schools I was hoping for called, and the ones that did were very, very nice, great programs, and the people were excellent...but I didn't think I had enough talent and/or dedication to go any further than college, and going to a school that didn't meet my academic needs just because I could play football didn't seem to make sense, as it wouldn't leave me with all that much when I was done...but i enjoyed the process quite a bit.

    BTW, these guys are very classy about this, and I got a letter 10 years after turning one of them down, a sort of form letter, but still, basically saying " It's been 10 years since you visited us, and we hope you're doing well." Very classy.
     
  6. AroundTheWorld

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    Is this the record for consecutive posts by the same person in one thread? :)
     
  7. AroundTheWorld

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    So what school did you end up going to and what did you study?
     
  8. SA Rocket

    SA Rocket Member

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    Props to you McB for having the maturity (and guidance from parents?) to consider your long term future ahead of the short term gains of attending one of the football schools just for the sake of playing. I imagine you were fortunate enough to either qualify for an academic scholarship at a school that fit your needs, or you didn't need the financial help, or both.

    BTW, it's easy to understand why you'd be willing to make an exception and play for Hawaii!!:cool:
     
  9. MacBeth

    MacBeth Member

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    A couple of schools, most recently the University of Toronto...

    Studies included Classical Civilizations, International Relations, History, Theatre, Film, and Peace and Conflict Resolution. It sounds more vaired than it is, as a lot of these are interdisciplinary, and being something of a career student up till the last few years (where I have merely reveresed roles) allowed me a lot of time to dabble with credentials. I got academic scholarships to allow me to do so, thank God, or I'd have been in more debt than I currently am, which would be saying something.

    I have at other times worked in various professions: masseur, model, bartender/manager, etc. to build up and/or maintain $$$ for my academic lifestyle. It is possibly true that had i not had the academic $ to go along with my earnings ahead of me, I might have had to consider the football offers more seriously and less critically.
     
  10. rvpals

    rvpals Member

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    Rileydog, I totally agreed with everything you said. I'm sure JVG already sees this. Who should be the initiator of offense? From what I saw last year, Yao could be the guy as soon as JVG has a system and everyone knows where they're suppose to go.

    As your last point, we should learn something from New Jersey and how they run the fast break. Mutumbo or Martin grabs the defensive rebound, Kidd was already on the run and almost cross mid court, then Kidd gets the outlet from the big guy, Kittle or Jefferson is already ahead of Kidd and streaking toward the basketball, Kidd hit them right ahead for an easy dunk. I remember one great play Rockets make that's in Rockets official website video, Ming blocks a layup by Christie, and boxed out his man, then Mobley grabs the loose ball, with Francis already taken off, Mobley turn on his turbo & follows Francis, and then hit him right on the side, and with one step, Francis throws it down. Francis should let his big man grab the rebound. From what I saw, Yao is really good outlet passer.
     
  11. Ming the Dream

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    Macbeth, as always I love your post. I do have an issue with one point though, what if Yao can't become the "MAN". I know I am going to get stoned for this, but Yao may very well never be able to take the pounding for an 82 game schedule, and never have the strength to handle the bigger bodies of the NBA. Remember, the biggest knock on Yao when he came into the league was that he was going to a) have trouble adjusting to the pounding the NBA season provides, and b)that he didn't have the strength to play on the blocks. I believe Yao can eventually be the "MAN", but I do believe it is short sighted to think he will be able to operate in that capacity this year when he couldn't last year, and has been in China all summer long and not with our trainers and coaches.
     
  12. Rileydog

    Rileydog Member

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    Ming the Dream,

    If Yao isn't the man or doesn't evolve into the man, this is entire thread is moot. The Rox will never go beyond the first round of the playoffs.

    If you've ever played bridge, it's like when you need two more tricks to make your bid and, looking at your hand and the dummie's hand, you realize you're dead unless the Queen of Hearts is in the West player's hand. In those situations, you have to assume that the cards will play out like you need because if they don't, there's no fixing the situation. You're dead anyway.
     
  13. DavidS

    DavidS Member

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    Macbeth. Great post.

    I have one issue.

    Remember when you said that you don't think that letting Francis "create" and expect his instincts to take over in order to make plays?

    Well, I have more to say about that...

    Francis can't solve this problem alone. He needs JVG. Here's the deal. Francis, when the "system" breaks down starts to go into ISO mode. But his ISO mode isn't necessarily to get others involved, but to make something happen. He gets anxious. Restless. We all know this. Now, his experience in ball distribution is not mastered. It's a weak spot. So, he's using tools that really haven't been developed (that part of his brain). He needs to develop this. But, he needs to be shown. Yes, shown. He NEEDs to do it, in order to SEE it in action. He need to be convinced by practice. He needs to see it applied to games.

    But, here's the bad part. Guess what that means? It means that we will have to LOSE GAMES in which he keeps with the plan. He has to be forced by JVG to not try and take over a game. He has to keep with the system, even though we lose the game. I know that sounds counter productive, but this needs to happen so that Francis will learn more patience. Once this happens the game will slow down for him and he'll start to see cracks in the defense for him to exploit. In the past Francis would try the "system" and if it failed he'd quickly abandon it in favor of the "instinct" or "iso" game. He didn't give it a chance. Rudy was partly to blame for this as well, because of his simpleton offensive philosophy. But JVG is better at this.

    So, we have to fail in order to win later.

    Ever seen the Rockets play a game, in which they won, but they seemed to "win the wrong way?" ISO only. That catches up to you sooner or later. But it does NOT pay off later.

    Francis thinks. "Hey, we won. That's all that matters. And it was my ISO play that saved the day!"

    NO! That's the wrong way to look at it!

    Ever seen the Rockets play a game, in which they lost, but they seemed to "lose the right way?" Team ball. That catches up to you sooner or later, TOO! But, it pays off for the better, later.

    Francis thinks, "Darn! We lost! Forget that 'team game.' It doesn't work! I should have 'taken over the game'!"

    NO! That's the wrong way to look at it also. This makes him think that the ISO game is the WAY to win. See what's going on here? It's an ILLUSION.

    Once Francis "sees" this system in action, he can say, "I get it!" And then, and only then can it be part of his "instincts" in which he doesn't have to think about it. It becomes 2nd nature after that.
     
    #53 DavidS, Jun 29, 2003
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2003
  14. topfive

    topfive CF OG

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    Macbeth, maybe you should consider dumbing it down so that everybody can understand. Like Homer Simps-- er, smackpeddler. He don't lahk them big werds much.
     
  15. rockets-#1

    rockets-#1 Member

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    This guy know's what he's talking about. I could not agree more with everything you have said. That is the perfect analysis and this way of thinking shows that Francis is a great player and doesn't need a lot of work like some people say. Good post lucystrikes

    Haha, I was gonna say....
     
  16. TaiMaiShu

    TaiMaiShu Member

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    He needs someone on the team he respects as an equal (basketball talent wise) the mistake this franchise made was dubbing the him the franchise. At the all-stars, when everyone's good, he relaxes, he passes. You see in streetball passing is art. Passing is showing off. Its about impression. To win its about scoring. Win Francis wants to win, in streetball you take the ball to the rack. You don't pass it, its not time to be fancy, its not time to let others score. It stime for the best to take charge. Fact is you don't need change francis. At pg he is fine. He already knows what to do. Only he knows what to do as the man. We put a lot of pressure on the man, he just trying to win. Francis needs to be the second best player on any team if that team is to succeed. Ming will be that player. Possibly a pf he can trust. In streetball you give up the ball, when its time to win, only if there is someone better out there, samething applys in the NBA. Its pride. He is doing his best. His best comes when there is a better.
     
  17. DavidS

    DavidS Member

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    That's the problem with "streetball."

    You can have all the "showing off" plays you want. In the end, if you don't complete the play. It's all worthless.

    In street ball, passing just has to be flashy.

    In the NBA, passing has to be consistent, efficient and fundamental. Leave the flash to the guys that take care of the play first, then if they want to add flare to it, they can. That was Magic. He could complete the fundament pass, but he was SOOOOO good at the fundament pass, that he was able to add a little flash to it.

    Francis in the past, would try the "flash" first, without first completing the fundamental (pass) setup.
     
  18. SLA

    SLA Member

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    Well....first of all...I don't think he is going to be moved to the 2. And he is going to remain as the Houston Rockets starting point guard. Hopefully Jeff Van Gundy can get him to play defense and try to play defense!! This will make him a much better point guard.
    Then as a team player, don't take almost 8 seconds to get across the half court line. And initiate the offense quickly and be efficient! Less turnovers...less dribbling....more thinking.
    He should penetrate and drive more and try to score or dish it off to Yao or Griffin or Posey or pass it out to Mobley or Posey more often..And when the time is right. When there is a mismatch and he is being defended by Kenyon Martin or a slower player or a very very short player...then the ball should be given to Steve! Excellent times to display his highlight reeling crossovers and moves and dunks...and score points...to win. BALANCED OFFENSE! Hopefully he learns how to run the fastbreak and set people up....see Jason Kidd.
     
  19. Drex22

    Drex22 Member

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    As a basketball coach I think its best to try to NOT just make things easier on the player or players you are trying to fix. If I were in this situation, I wouldn't cop out by playing him at the 2 and tell myself my problems are solved. I believe that if coaches do that they might as well not be employed. I think the Rockets need a "you WILL run our plays the way we want them ran" type of attitude from the coaching staff. This may be the best fix. This is a coaches job. Does anyone really think that Steve isn't capable of playing the point any way he chooses? I think he is good enough to do anything he wants out of the 1 spot. Having a new coach is a great chance to get things changed. Now if he can but won't....... there is a big problem. I think we should know after this year.
     
  20. verse

    verse Member

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    simple. to the point. and 110% correct. good job Oski.
     

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