Dada, since we're talking about the sig, I'll mention there's a treatment of it on Snopes. You may have seen it. She basically says that the gist of it is true, though the particulars aren't quite right.
Since we're on the subject of that signature, it's a really really good quote, his full answer from Snopes was even better. I don't think there's a politician I respect more than Colin Powell.
Here is the full quote. The United States believes strongly in what you call soft power, the value of democracy, the value of the free economic system, the value of making sure that each citizen is free and free to pursue their own God-given ambitions and to use the talents that they were given by God. And that is what we say to the rest of the world. That is why we participated in establishing a community of democracy within the Western Hemisphere. It's why we participate in all of these great international organizations. There is nothing in American experience or in American political life or in our culture that suggests we want to use hard power. But what we have found over the decades is that unless you do have hard power -- and here I think you're referring to military power -- then sometimes you are faced with situations that you can't deal with. I mean, it was not soft power that freed Europe. It was hard power. And what followed immediately after hard power? Did the United States ask for dominion over a single nation in Europe? No. Soft power came in the Marshall Plan. Soft power came with American GIs who put their weapons down once the war was over and helped all those nations rebuild. We did the same thing in Japan. So our record of living our values and letting our values be an inspiration to others I think is clear. And I don't think I have anything to be ashamed of or apologize for with respect to what America has done for the world. (Applause.) We have gone forth from our shores repeatedly over the last hundred years and we’ve done this as recently as the last year in Afghanistan and put wonderful young men and women at risk, many of whom have lost their lives, and we have asked for nothing except enough ground to bury them in, and otherwise we have returned home to seek our own, you know, to seek our own lives in peace, to live our own lives in peace. But there comes a time when soft power or talking with evil will not work where, unfortunately, hard power is the only thing that works. _________________________________________________ I want this man as my president. DD
I'm not really into politics right now...they keep pushing me ("The Common Guy") away and alienating myself and those around me. I really feel like Colin Powell has a certain sincerity and strong understanding of middle-class America. I would definitely vote for him (it just seems like the regular bipartisan BS would keep him from operating effectively).
Here's an idea...... http://www.thesafetyvalve.com/archives/000708.html#000708 With all of this talk of war, many of us will encounter "Peace Activists" who will try and convince us that we must refrain from retaliating against the ones who terrorized us all on September 11, 2001, and those who support terror. These activists may be alone or in a gathering...most of us don't know how to react to them. When you come upon one of these people, or one of their rallies, here are the proper rules of etiquette: 1. Listen politely while this person explains their views. Strike up a conversation if necessary and look very interested in their ideas. They will tell you how revenge is immoral, and that by attacking the people who did this to us, we will only bring on more violence. They will probably use many arguments, ranging from political to religious to humanitarian. 2. In the middle of their remarks, without any warning, punch them in the nose. 3. When the person gets up off of the ground, they will be very angry and they may try to hit you, so be careful. 4. Very quickly and calmly remind the person that violence only brings about more violence and remind them of their stand on this matter. Tell them if they are really committed to a nonviolent approach to undeserved attacks, they will turn the other cheek and negotiate a solution. Tell them they must lead by example if they really believe what they are saying. 5. Most of them will think for a moment and then agree that you are correct. 6. As soon as they do that, hit them again. Only this time hit them much harder. Square in the nose. 7. Repeat steps 2-5 until the desired results are obtained and the idiot realizes how stupid of an argument he/she is making. 8. There is no difference in an individual attacking an unsuspecting victim or a group of terrorists attacking a nation of people. It is unacceptable and must be dealt with. Perhaps at a high cost. We owe our military a huge debt for what they are about to do for us and our children. We must support them and our leaders at times like these. We have no choice. We either strike back, VERY HARD, or we will keep getting hit in the nose. Lesson over, class dismissed.
You forget step 9: The formally peaceful protester gets a gun, comes back, and shoots you. Nice story.
Moondog: How funny! I was just about to post that! Dylan: You just missed the point of the exercise now, didn't you? Violence is never wanted, but it is, unfortunately, necessary at times. And protester's will always be saround. My question to all anti-war poster's is this: If the Twin Towers were Knocked down during the Clinton era, and the result's were the same, would you still stand there and decry "foul!" If you are honest with yourself, you know why you are in the minority on this. BTW.. If anyone knows how you can get a comic submitted to the Houston Press, let me know. I want to start a comic called "Why Tom Tomorrow is a moron" Any help would be appreciated. Thx!
Here's a peace activist story for you: KALAK, Iraq (March 31) - The soldier covered his face and wept. It was a deep, sudden sobbing he couldn't control. His shoulders heaved. Tears wet the frayed cuffs of his green Iraqi army sweater. He cried because he was alive. He cried because his family may think he's dead. He cried for his country. He cried because - for him - the war was over. ''I'm so sorry. Excuse me. I just can't stop,'' wept the soldier who fled Saddam Hussein's army and was taken Monday into the hands of U.S.-allied Iraqi Kurdish fighters. ''Could this terrible time be over soon? Please, tell me.'' The soldier - part of a front-line unit - was among at least 18 Iraqi deserters who staggered into the Kurdish town of Kalak as U.S. warplanes stepped up airstrikes on Iraqi positions near the Kurds' autonomous region. He agreed to share his story, but with conditions: no details about him or his military service could be revealed. Call him Ali. He feared Saddam loyalists could retaliate against his family. They may have already, he said. ''The army knows I ran away. They could come and take revenge,'' he said in the central police barracks in Kalak, about 20 miles northwest of the Kurdish administrative center Irbil. ''My only hope is that I'm not alone. There are so many deserters and those who want to run. They cannot attack all these families with a war going on.'' War for this foot soldier was one of desperation. ''We only prayed we'd stay alive long enough to get a chance to escape,'' Ali said through an interpreter. His unit - about 30 men - slept in muddy burrows on a hillside, he said. Breakfast was tea and crusty bread. At midday: rice and a single cucumber to share between two soldiers. There was no dinner. His commanders described the war as an American grab for Iraqi oil. He couldn't contradict them - there were no radios or chances to call home. Occasionally they would receive copies of the Iraqi military newspaper. One issue featured a poem with the lines: ''The enemy will tire, and Saddam will remain.'' ''We knew nothing. We were told only that America was trying to take over Iraq,'' Ali said. ''But we are not so stupid. We know how Saddam rules the country. We know in our hearts we'd be better off without him.'' Ali was drafted just after the 1991 Gulf War. He remained in the military because his family depended on the small military pay. Anyway, there were few choices for ex-soldiers whose formal education ended in the fourth grade. There were no jobs at home. Ali claimed he would never seek the favors of Saddam's ruling Baath party. ''I don't see Saddam as a hero anymore,'' Ali said. U.S. bombs killed at least five members of his unit. About the same number were wounded, he said. ''There is no medical help,'' he added. ''They are left to die.'' ''The spirit of the soldiers is very low,'' he said. ''We were not really mad at the Americans. We just want to save our lives.'' He and four other soldiers decided to run. But they had to pick their moment. Their unit and most others include Baathist agents given orders to execute any deserters, he said. ''But we decided it was either die from an American bomb or be killed by our own people,'' he said. ''It was better to run and take our chances.'' On Wednesday evening, in a torrential rainstorm, they made their break. They raced over the treeless pastures into Kurdish territory. The next morning, they asked a goat herder to direct them to Kalak. Then they panicked. ''We thought he would hand us over to the Iraqi army for some reward,'' Ali said. They arrived at the edge of Kalak on Friday. They could see the Iraqi positions on the ridge just across the Great Zab River, running high and dirt brown after the downpours. And they waited. They worried Kurdish militiamen would open fire if they simply walked into town. Until dawn Monday, they survived on wild greens and weighed their choices. They finally decided to fashion a surrender flag from an undershirt. A half hour later, they were gulping hot tea and smoking cigarettes. Kurdish officials hunted for new clothes. Ali still wore what passed for a uniform: green camouflage pants, boots, a military sweater, a wool turban and a ragged nylon jacket dotted with cigarette burns. Kurdish authorities decline to say precisely how many Iraqi military deserters have crossed over. Modest estimates range from several hundred to nearly 500. But they clearly expect more. Kurds plan a camp for at least 6,000 deserters and possible Iraqi POWs. Massoud Barzani, leader of the Kurdish Democratic Party whose territory includes Kalak, said ''no comment'' when asked if U.S. officials in the Kurdish zone would question deserters. ''I can say now what I always felt: Saddam led to this war,'' Ali said. ''We don't want to fight America. We don't want to fight for Saddam. We just want an end to all this.'' A top Kurdish official, Hoshiar Zebari, predicted a collision course for two powerful forces in Iraq: the ordinary troops and the defenders of the regime. ''It's highly possible there could be confrontations between the regular army and the paramilitary who are terrorizing the people,'' Zebari told reporters. Ali agreed. No one dares to speak out against Saddam while Baath party forces still have footholds, he said. ''The people know that any uprising against Saddam now would mean terrible things to them and their family. They force them to chant 'Down with America,' but not everyone means it. Saddam's people are afraid for the future.'' That's when he started to cry. Moments later came the thud of a U.S. bomb hitting the ridge just across the river. AP-NY-03-31-03 1953EST Copyright 2003 The Associated Press.
Does nobody find the appeals to emotion to ring hollow from both sides? If we're going to get caught up in "my brother, husband, sister, 3rd cousin twice removed" fought in X war and died for his country... then one can use the same appeal to justify just about any action you please. Or, of course, if you really buy the "but the Iraqi children!" then you're basically vetoing any military action ever. Bull**** on both sides. Shame on the people who propogate the nonsense.
haven - both sides and fighting to play on the emotions because there are a lot of people out there right now who really don't know how to feel about this war. One sad story overleaps the other, one young protestor tries to force information on a war widow... Iraqi children are dying from American bombs... The real war going on right now is the emotions of Americans, We are constantly being told how to feel by both sides, from the media, from the protestors, from the anti-protestors. There is almost a bigger battle going on right now with Video Cameras and notepads then there is near the outskirts of Baghdad.
I think it is quite the opposite. This is the very harsh reality of war and it is anything but hollow. It was not my personal experience to lose someone, but both my experience and DaDakota's brought tears to our eyes--- just to be on the periphery of their true tragedy. That is not hollow at all.
No, giddyup. It's melodramatic idiocy. Substantive arguments about the appropriateness of war is great. Purely subjective emotional drivel just leads to unresolvable ranting w/o ever truly defining what is advisable conduct. But look at your assertions. If I were to grant any credence to your assertions, then I'd essentially be allowing the validity of an argument that inherently lends validity to any war in any circumstances. The "point" (for there was no logic) of your post applies equally regardless of circumstance. We could as easily be invading Canada to steal their maple syrup reserves, and your "emotional appeal argument" rings equally true. Use the brain you have, or it's going to rot. I have sympathy for the feelings of people involved. But you can't make policy decisions on them, because they supply no true standards, just empty tears that have nothing to do w/the issue.
Exactly, Haven, If we invade Mexico, I think mostly everyone would consider it unjust, and just because some one says I lost my friend during WWII so we should always support our gov't decision to go to war, it has no bearing on whether the current circumstances are legitimate. On the same token, if some innocent Germans were killed during WWII, does that make the U.S. wrong for taking part in overthrowing Hitler. Its always sad when innocent bystanders are killed, but that doesn't make a war illegitimate.
Man, T_J was right about you. Within the first few responses to a thread you don't like the message of, you quickly try to discredit it by either putting in a rolleyes or similarly trying to delegitimize the thread with a no-thought, one liner. Grow up.
If you pay attention, a couple of us give giddyup a hard time because for his posting of internet rumors. He knows this and we get along fine. He even sent me a Christmas card. I think it's you and T_J who need to chill out.
And you want me to be more substantive?!? Maple syrup? What a twerp you must be to call their tears empty. How dare you! What gives you the audacity.... You must just be afraid of the reality. Go ahead, sweep it under the academic rug of your choosing. You'll find it again one day.
