Well I think it's obvious. We won't go far in the Playoffs until we can find a PG. I know Michael Carter Williams can't shoot worth a damn, but maybe someone like him could come in and get an assist or two. I know Pat isn't a typical point guard, but 0 assists is ridiculous. Combine this with the fact that his defense is just not what it used to be.
People confuse hustle with defense. Pat gambles too much, fouls too often but looks good when he has the occasional desperation rebound.
first time seeing this thread, in a word; VERY i am even a little bit shocked that it's even a questionable topic.
We have a PG. His name is James Harden and he does 90-95% of the ball handling for us. Pat had zero assist because his role is not to create off the dribble. His job is be a spot 3pt shooter, in which he's did a great job (17pts on 7-11). His defense wasn't great last nite. But saying "it's not what it used to be" after a bad game is knee-jerk. Now let me guess, you're either 1) a Dragic fan following Dragic since he left Houston or 2) a LOF still mad he lost his starting job to Bev last year or 3) a fan of Shved thinking he's gonna be the next Steve Nash. Either way, this has less to do with Bev and more to do with players you guy have been following HOPING they'll get their chance. I still think Bev's toughness, defense & ability to hit open 3's helps our chances. Our real weakness is backup PG
Do you not see the problem with what you're saying? So you want one guy to not only be you're primary play-maker but also main option on offense AND continue produce on the defensive end? That's asking one guy to do too much and when it happens consistently his defense will suffer, as we're seeing right now. We have no one else to run the offense through and McHale doesn't know how to draw great set plays for guys like Pop does. Until Bev shows that he can create on offense he's at best another Bruce Bowen / Tony Allen type of guy - but with a streakier outside shot. That's great for him, but it's not what will push us over the hump.
the weakness is that a backup pg on a championship team is a starting pg for this team. plain and simple if you get basically zero play making ability from the other backcourt spot it won't be winning a championship. on top of that people should start noticing how his defense has gradually declined.
Bev has the Parsons syndrome, plain and simple. Bev is trying to get paid this off season just like Parsons was last season. In this league for most guys, Offense PAYS much more than defense. Bev is now trying to play passable D (having acquied the reputation of being an "elite" defender) while saving energy and getting better numbers on the offensive end. Unfortunately, that is not what the Rockets require from him. It is what it is I guess.
Shallow argument, and that's not what I'm saying. Bev's defense, 3pt shooting & toughness has ALLOWED Harden more freedom. It's part of the reason he's having a MVP season. It's part of the reason he even has more energy to play defense, because he's almost never guarding the best player. Take Bev out, and Harden's forced to spend more energy doing stuff that he's not really good at. What Bev does (along w/ Ariza) actually HELPS Harden. I want a playmaker too, but one that'll mess up chemistry w/ our starters. While we do need another creator on offense, it needs to come from the BENCH. Shved, Canaan nor Terry are NOT that type. Nate Robinson would be a great a pickup. Also, Bruce Brown was a starter and KEY to those Spurs Championship lol. Bev's in the same mold (Bruce Bowen, Tony Allen, Mario Elie type player). He's not flashy. But he does all the dirty work. We are one of the best defensive teams in the league with Bev. You wanna sacrifice that for a playmaker? A legit backup center is a bigger issue IMO
Yeah, I think he definitely deserves a real contract next year (not saying max or something stupid), but regardless if it's with the Rockets or not, he's proven he can play at the NBA level. I mean even if it's backup mins on a different team definitely worth more than his contract is. I can't fault him for wanting to make something, he's making nothing for the amount of production he provides the Rockets. A lot of people forget he's basically making peanuts compared to these stupid contracts other teams have given out.
I wonder what is going on in Bev's head lately. It looks like he is playing out of control on offense and his defense has not been anywhere at the level we expect. I think the contract situation is at the back of his mind, and also the fact he knows that Morey wants to upgrade the PG position is messing with him. I can honestly deal with him not being an assist guy if he can either knock down his shots or lock down his man...he has been doing neither lately and is becoming very expendable
I get that Ariza and Bev allow for Harden to slack more on defense, and that's great for making Harden's offensive numbers look better, but that's not what's best of for the team. Having a playmaker off the bench would be fine with me too, but this thread is more about how replaceable Beverly is. I'm arguing that right now Bev is a defensive specialist only, which means his value is roughly that of Raja Bell and Bruce Bowen. However, I'm not willing to put him on that tier yet since at least those guys had deep playoff experience and shot the ball better from 3. Tony Allen is probably a good comparison for measuring Bev's worth. He's getting approximately $5M with the Grizz - hardly would I would call irreplaceable. But that's still almost 10x the amount Bev's making right now, so good for him from an individual perspective.
Last night, we lost that game because Beverley played too tight on Payton. HE IS A FREAKING 21% 3 POINT SHOOTER. Why in the world was he playing so close to the guy letting him blow by and get layups and create for everyone. It was just stupid stupid basketball. Beverly did lose the game last night. Bricked open threes, turned the ball over in ways that your taught not to do in high school, and he apparently didn't look at Payton's inability to shoot in the scouting report. AWFUL!!!
I would agree that Bev is not playing very good of late, at least not the standard we are expecting from him or he is expecting from himself. But I would hardly agree he is out of control in offense. Look at his shots, they are mostly open 3s. If he will go to the basket, normally that means Harden is not calling for the ball nor Howard/Dmo is open (for whatever reason), he is always the 3rd or 4th option in offense. Even that, he seldom took any jumpers, at least he is still trying to go to the basket for a tear drop. Sure, he will not have the same finishing ability as Harden, the comparison is not even fair. He will make some mistakes, some TOs, but that was never a major issue in his game. I do agree his defense contribution is not that good of late, whether its related to his teammates rotation or he is just a step late on getting through the screen, there isn't much excuses for him, the result speaks for itself. He needs to do better, whatever it takes. But then again, he is the only one that we still see the most efforts and hustle game in and game out, he ran back to defend the fast break in most processions. He made quite a few dumb fouls of late, but at least he tried and being close to his opponents. I am not trying to defend his sub-par performance, but all I am saying is : if all his teammates will try to play with the same efforts, this team could be 10 times better than we are now.
Hmm, I don't necessarily disagree with you, but to add, the Spurs basically had Bowen (Ariza fills that role at SF), and then Parker and Ginobli (this is going off 2005, obviously Bowen is long gone). Like for the Rockets they have both Bev and Ariza filling the same role as Bowen... Starting PG/SG/SF for Spurs in 05 was Parker/Manu/Bowen... You have defender and playmaker in Parker, playmaker in Manu, lock down defender in Bowen with 3's. The problem with the Rockets is only 1 playmaker so in playoffs it's pretty easy to just focus on Harden and know Bev/Ariza can't do much. I'm not saying to get rid of Bev, but a defender/pm like Parker would be a superior upgrade, then have Bev come off bench to spread defense. Obviously I know the Rockets can't trade for a player like Parker so I think Robinson type player sounds good even if off bench, but unfortunately he was just traded. Tl;dr: Again I'm not saying you're wrong or something, I just think Rockets basically have 2 of the same player and it definitely hurts when those shots aren't falling.
It's not just the shots. He dribbles around way too much on the perimeter wasting valuable time on the shotclock. He also either takes forever to make an entry pass to Dwight or D-Mo or winds up not giving them the ball at all. Couple that with the decline in his D and I'd say he's not only replaceable, but needs to be moved to the bench or off the roster altogether. Bev is no Derek Fisher and even if he was, Dwight and James are no Shaq and Kobe. We need a quality starting PG on this team if we want to be a legit contender.
I will disagree on this. If you really hate player dribble the seconds away on the shot clock, you must be a Harden hater. Check for 90% of the procession of Harden's dribbling started from the back court, he will cross the mid court with 17-18 seconds left. How come that never was a problem? As I mentioned before, whenever you started to like/dislike a player, you will over analyze his other minor details. When Bev will dribble the balls, as I said above, the Rox almost never run any ISO plays for him, his option is either looking for Harden/Dwight/Dmo, but when it all failed or they are not in a good passing lane, then basically its just a failed procession and he will create something on his own, which is not a high percentage play. Its kind of like Harden dribbling for 14 second and passing the ball with 3 seconds left for a guarded 3, not a very good play also. You don't see that often this season, and it doesn't mean its just a designed play. Its a broken procession.
Hmm... I think you're taking what he is saying out of context. Harden having the ball and dribbling is fine because you know he can create a shot and the defense has to work, if Bev has does that it's like a truly lost possession when he's trying to create something. I know it's not all the time, but over the last couple games it's almost better to only give him the ball if he has a quick shot. Like Harden is so good he can do whatever he wants on offense, Bev is not that type of player and shouldn't just sit there dribbling hoping he gets bailed out.
Meh.....his calling card is defense, and it's not like anyone is going to mistake him for John Wall on offense. Everyone knows who Pat is. He's a decent shooter and has a reliable floater in the lane. Everything else is hustle.
