How Not To Be Poor -- by Walter Williams

I always cringe when I hear an athlete or entertainer say that hard work is enough to achieve goals and dreams. It sets such unrealistic framwork in their younger fans. There are more lotto-winners than nba players.

 

Who the heck is he?

 

She bang.

 

He looks like the Asian pillsbury doughboy.

 

I think Williams is correct (dons flame gear) when he says that to escape poverty, you just have to work hard and work smart. That is what many Asians do and it is seen to work.

The problem with that is that Asians have to fight their way to the top through racism and prejudice that white people don't have to deal with. This makes success twice as hard for Asians.

So while Asians put in the work to succeed (financially), they haven't done as much to succeed racially, in terms of working towards racial equality. With college quotas and a bias against Asians in non-engineering fields, Asians must deal with extra pressure.

On the other hand, African-Americans are very good at working towards racial equality by utilizing their voices and congregating together to form a stronger unioin against racism. However, their culture doesn't have the extreme emphasis on education that allows Asians to succeed (financially).

In conclusion, working hard and working smart may provide you with the financial means to live life, however, minorities may be forced to work harder to achieve the same goals. Thus, it is important to not only work hard, but also to fight racial injustices along the way, so that future generations will have an equal footing in the arena of life.

 

Good points, while Asians are successful on the average, there are very few Asians that achieve the top level of success due to racial prejudices.

 

Another reason why Asians don't get any "political publicity" is because of their relative success. For example, affirmative action programs generally make it a point to penalize Asians. If they had not achieved this relative state of academic and financial success - there would probably be more political clamor.

 

Don't compare an immigrant population to an enslaved population. Its bad form.

Yes, and America has systematically fought to supress that mindset of blacks in America. Our current generation is basically the first generation in American history to have NOT been automatically born into government sanctioned racist policies. Do you expect these people to automatically understand how to compete at the same levels. Of course not. We need to provide an avenue to SYSTEMATICALLY help huge segments of the population that continues to fall through the cracks. Affirmative Action and welfare were excellent first steps. Then helped thousands of people but nowadays we have the power to learn from out past successes/failures to make a more efficient program that costs less and helps more.

To compare Asians to American blacks is rediculous. You can't compare an enslaved population that prodominantly worked as manual/unskilled laborors up to about 15 years ago (Hispanic populations have primarily overtaken that role recently.)

Asians voluntarily immigrate to America with the mindset that they can prosper in America. The mere fact that they are willing to put themselves at risk speaks volumes about their personal drive to improve their lives.

 

Of course it is hard to compare the different population groups such as the Asian Americans and African Americans. However, Asians often face the same prejudice as the African Americans. Thus what the Asian Americans achieved could be accomplished by African Americans unless you believe they were genetically inferior(which no one on this bbs believes). What African Americans nees is a way to turn their culture around, that require strong leadership both in the African American community and the government. Neither of which exist currently.

 

That is also partially cultural. The reason they don't have as much representation at the top levels is lack of activism, and involvement. Too often the belief is hard work will get them good education, jobs, and money. It does, but as we saw with the LA riots the Asian communities lack of activism and involvement left them out in the cold when it came to protection.

The police and guard that were initially protecting Korea town, got pulled back to Beverly Hills, and Korea town suffered from heavy looting. That wouldn't happen if there was more activism and political participation from the community. But the same culture that encourages hard work and education, also discourages making waves, bucking the system, involvement outside of their own small communities. The residents of Beverly Hills, run their own candidates, fund other campaigns, and take a much larger interest in the city, county, state, and federal politics.

Racial prejudices may also play a part, but activism is also one of the best ways to combat that.

 

I think many of these generalizations about Asian-Americans are particularly damaging. Having grown up in Houston, I didn't know about Asian-American poverty until I moved to NYC. According to a June 2003 press release by the Asian American Federation of New York,

Nearly 1 in 4 Asian American children in New York City lives in poverty, the Federation's federally designated Census Information Center concluded from recently-released Census 2000 poverty and income information.

The Federation found that 24 percent of Asian American children, or 46,698 youngsters, fell below the poverty threshold of $17,063 in annual income for a family of four. This poverty incidence significantly surpasses that for non-Hispanic white children in the city (16 percent), all U.S. children (17 percent), and Asian American children nationwide (14 percent).

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Providing perspective, O said: "New York City agencies historically have underserved Asian American children, due in part to a shortage of culturally and linguistically relevant services, as well as limited outreach efforts targeting Asian American communities. Contrary to the 'Model Minority' myth that all Asian Americans are self-sufficient high achievers, New York City's predominantly-immigrant Asian American population needs programs to help children and parents overcome cultural and language barriers, to support employment, and to care for latchkey children."

***

"The Federation’s findings are a compelling reminder that the Asian American community is not homogenous,” said Jessica Lee, Executive Director of the New York City-based Coalition for Asian American Children and Families. “Our children’s needs often vary between ethnic groups and boroughs. Policy-makers and service providers should use these statistics to develop more targeted outreach and services.”

Keep in mind as well that more than 3 out of 4 (77 percent) of New York City's poor Asian American children live with two parents.

http://www.aafny.org/proom/pr/pr20030610.asp

 

I agree with you that immigrants do come to America with a "better" mindset than many of the native-born but the Asian-American experience can still shed some light on the racial barriers that other minorities may face. There has been a lot of anti-Asian legislation passed in this country at both federal and local levels.

I'm not pairing off Asians and blacks on some sort of competitive scale here. I'm just saying that maybe the academic pride of Asian culture in general is a positive thing that other people of all colors may want to embrace.

If anything, Asian-American success stories tell us that non-white minorities can succeed in this country as a whole.

This part is probably for another thread-

My daughter, who was born in South Central was arugably "automatically born into government sanctioned racist policies" (ie. affirmative action).

We also shouldn't treat all blacks as a common entity that all embrace one culture or mindset. That is the problem I have with affirmative action as it is implemented in many cases. Skin color is too much of a deciding factor. It should be modified to assist those that are poor and downtrodden. My daughter is penalized while the neighbor's kid gets assistance. I don't think poor Asians should be penalized especially if they live in predominantly black and hispanic neighborhoods.

 

That's a good point. I think this sort of activism is starting to rise. Another problem we face is the fact the we are only 2 percent or so fo the population.

Maybe I'll toss my hat into the ring for 2008..

 

The thing is Children from Asian families that are under poverty level does not stay there for the most parts. My family came over in the 80's and we lived on $400 a month for a family of four for the first two years and then then it was $1100 per month for another 8 years. My parents send both my sister and me to college and never thought for a second that we should go find a job after high school. There are many relatives and friends I know that came over from China and lived in poverty for the first few years but all managed to send their kids to college and grad schools. While no where near rich now our family own four homes and 9 cars, this is the best way to get out of poverty, through education.

 

That's good that we agree here.

Yes, because most immigrants that come to America come here with the express purpose of improving their situation. I know many Africans, Caribbean and middle-eastern immigrants that came with practically nothing and are doing well now. It isn't just Asians...I would say most immigrants.

No...not "ie. affirmative action" Affirmative Action is one of the success stories of America. However I will agree that it's usefulness has now been outlived. We need new systems to catch people falling through the cracks...not just blanket a system to help all minorities.

Government sactioned racist policies would be Jim Crow. Or more recently, racial profiling. I'm talking about policies that are designed with the express purpose to suppress a group of people. To lump Affirmative Action with the likes of Jim Crow is just plain insulting. I wish you would revise your rhetoric on this matter.

Affirmative Action was implemented when people used skin color to segregate people. So it isn't, AT ALL, unreasonable to implement a policy that uses skin color to desegregate people. But I will agree with you that Affirmative Action has run its course, as we know it. I would be in favor of an alternative plan. The problem is, the people that are trying to shoot it down, are not providing alternatives. I am NOT in favor of eliminating afirmative action where there is not a better alternative.

 

Are you basing your first sentence on fact or opinion? You bring up a good point though, and I would be interested in seeing the percentages of Asian-American children who succeed as adults despite growing up in poverty.

Your family's view of education is similiar to most Asian-American families I know. It is similar to my own family. However, I've seen the other side as well. I've met a number of Chinese families in NYC that do not value education because they need their children to work to support the family. The children of these families feel obligated to help their parents and do not attend college. NYC Chinatown is full of low-wage laborers that work in the warehouses and factories. I wish I could say that these places are all first generation Asian-Americans who came to the U.S. as adults. But I would not be surprised that a number of these low-wage laborers grew up in NYC. And my fear is that generalizations of Asian-Americans as a model minority discount the children who grow up in this kind of environment, especially those who are not as lucky as you and me.

 

Exactly the point I'm trying to make. How many times have we heard "You are just like your father/mother." If the parents are in poverty, they are not equipped...on many levels...to guide their children out.

What you are describing is the beginning of a whole new segmement of poor people. Likely, their kids will be poor when they grow up because that is all they know how to be. Many will escape but most will not. A new cycle of poverty begins.

We can blame them because "they are lazy." Or we can implement new ways of encouraging people to promote themselves.

 

Again I feel compelled to point out that Asian success isn't something innate within Asians but largely because most of the Asians that have come here are self-selected. They are the most ambitious immigrants and also have the benefit of coming here after the Civil Rights movement. For more than half of the last Century most Asians weren't allowed to come here, especially Chinese, weren't allowed citizenship and also had to deal with segregations in Chinatowns and farms.

Asian values of education and strong academic tradition still couldn't save China and India from being economic basketcases for most of the history of the modern world economy. Hasn't kept corruption, caste systems, rampant poverty, ignorance and superstition from gripping vast segments of their societies. Keep in mind that while China and India each may have more PHD's than other countries they also have far far more people living in poverty. Percentage wise the amount of poverty and illiteracy in China is HUGE compared to the US.

I say all of this even though I am an Asian because debates like this inevitably fall into these kind of good minority vs bad minority stereotypes. The immigrant experience of the vast majority of Asians in America is far far different than African Americans or Native Americans. The only way it would be comparable if most Asians were the descendents of railway workers and were part of a society and culture who most of their history in the US they had been oppressed.

That's why I think the model minority stereotype is in many ways as dangerous as the stereotype of blacks as the underachieving minority.