The message is a different analysis than the one typically offered by the ilk of Jesse Jackson and Louis Farrakhan about the roots of the problems of poverty and illiteracy in the black community. The message is offered by people like Bill Cosby and Walter Williams and Thomas Sowell. I am convinced by their version moreso than the former crew's. The message is about helping all people (including blacks) to get their life started on a correct track. What could be more helpful and more preventative of future problems?
The common analogy for your arguement would be the "teach a man to fish" truism. I agree that too often people like Farrakhan and Jackson want to give the man the fish instead of teaching to fish. Conversely, I would suggest that you are more interested in pointing out what idiots the people are who can't fish and making sure we all know that you taught yourself to fish instead of actually doing anything to correct the problem with the paradigm. Furthermore, having spent time around one of Mr. Cosby's children, I would suggest that using him as a spokesman for black americans is akin to the Ivy League practice of using the children of African diplomats in order to satisfy self imposed racial quotas. Cosby is so far removed from that world that it is a bit like Latrell Sprewell complaining about being able to feed his family.
I guess you need to read more closely if that is your "response". The "address" was meant to be historical, thus the mention of children and "50 years from now" (roughly the present). Also, it had nothing to do with civil rights having been lost. This thread is all about how stupid blacky doesn't know how to make money...and how that has nothing to do with racism. So...uh...nice "point" as usual. Word. And now we sing: Swan, swan, hummingbird Hurrah, we are all free now What noisy cats are we Girl and dog he bore his cross Swan, swan, hummingbird Hurrah, we are all free now A long, low time ago, people talk to me Johnny Reb, what's the price of fans Forty a piece or three for one dollar? Hey captain, don't you want to buy Some bone chains and toothpicks? Night wings, her hair chains, Here's your wooden greenback, sing Wooden beams and dovetail sweep I struck that picture ninety times, I walked that path a hundred ninety, Long, low time ago, people talk to me A pistol hot cup of rhyme The whiskey is water, the water is wine Marching feet, Johnny Reb, what's the price of heroes? Six in one, half dozen the other, Tell that to the captain's mother, Hey captain, don't you want to buy, Some bone chains and toothpicks? Night wings, her hair chains Swan, swan, hummingbird Hurrah, we are all free now What noisy cats are we Long, low time ago, people talk to me A pistol hot cup of rhyme, The whiskey is water, the water is wine
They are not particularly my target audience, but they will be my target audience here because that is the audience here. I was just jerking SamFisher's chain. My message is the same no matter who my audience is. I post it here because this is a place I visit. SamFisher challenges the appropriateness and calls out my manhood for not carrying the message to a more appropriate place, i.e. the ghetto. I carry the message whereever I might go. The message is not just for blacks. The message is a raceless, economic and legal TRUTH that Williams sees as an opportunity to communicate to the black community in an attempt to overwhelm the more entrenched message of people like Jackson and Farrakhan.
The message is a central economic and legal truth that applies to everyone. Williams is reminding the black community of that in contrast the usual race-baiting stuff from Jackson or Farrakhan. Word Plus.
<b>Originally posted by Ottomaton The common analogy for your arguement would be the "teach a man to fish" truism. I agree that too often people like Farrakhan and Jackson want to give the man the fish instead of teaching to fish.</b> So far, so good. <b>Conversely, I would suggest that you are more interested in pointing out what idiots the people are who can't fish and making sure we all know that you taught yourself to fish instead of actually doing anything to correct the problem with the paradigm.</b> No, I am the same kind of idiot. I made some of those same kind of related mistakes and I am still paying for them. I am glad that you only "suggested" it because you are patently wrong. Yes, I did learn a lesson, but it is a lesson not easily corrected. I profoundly say that promoting this message is doing a helluva lot to correct the problem with the paradigm-- but only if people will read the message and attempt to understand it. <b>Furthermore, having spent time around one of Mr. Cosby's children, I would suggest that using him as a spokesman for black americans is akin to the Ivy League practice of using the children of African diplomats in order to satisfy self imposed racial quotas. Cosby is so far removed from that world that it is a bit like Latrell Sprewell complaining about being able to feed his family.</b> Neither Cosby, Farrakhan, Jackson, Sowell or Williams are good spokesman for the average person because the are all exceptional achievers. Ah, but look at their message and take the import of that and not their personality or power to the bank.
Just to be fair to Farrakhan he actually has preached the importance of education and is very focussed on economic self-sufficiency for blacks.
Exactly correct. Farrakhan is actually in agreement with Walter Williams and his belief that blacks should not rely on welfare, should get an education and work etc.
No doubt that everybody pays lip service to the concept, but are they still harping about the civil rights struggle?
Harping about the civil rights struggle? Do you think it is over? Do you think equality has been achieved? There is still a ways to go on the civil rights struggle, and everyone should continue to 'harp' on it until it is finished. Farrakhan has been in favor of blacks not taking handouts from the govt. for 40 or so years. It has been a pillar of his message from the very beginning and continues to be so today. I think he is doing more than paying lip service to it. However, advising blacks not to accept welfare, to work, and get an education in no way prevents him or anyone from trying to achieve civil rights. He should be 'harping' on it.
You check the lawbooks, and I'll check the reality. Equality in a lawbook doesn't equal equality in practice. Do you remember the article that had the test where whites with a prison record were more likely to get hired than blacks who didn't have one? What about the sentences for drug crimes? The same crimes are sentenced way more severely for blacks. What about the fact that African Americans in school are way more likely to be designated as special needs, or for remedial classes even when they get better grades, and test higher than their white counterparts.
So there may be some problems with application of the law by certain parties? That's what the law is there for. Life is not a fairy tale; that's why I had you to check the hearts-and-minds.
I agree that the law is there. I also agree that life isn't a fairy tale. But none of that means that the struggle for civil rights, and equality is over. I didn't understand why you were seemingly complaining about peoples efforts to carry on the battle for civil rights.
"The Children's Defense Fund and civil rights organizations frequently whine about the number of black children living in poverty. In 1999, the Bureau of the Census reported that 33.1 percent of black children lived in poverty compared with 13.5 percent of white children. <b>It turns out that race per se has little to do with the difference. Instead, it's welfare and single parenthood. When black children are compared to white children living in identical circumstances, mainly in a two-parent household, both children will have the same probability of being poor.</b> How much does racial discrimination explain? So far as black poverty is concerned, I'd say little or nothing, <b>which is not to say that every vestige of racial discrimination has been eliminated.</b> But let's pose a few questions. Is it racial discrimination that stops black students from studying and completing high school? Is it racial discrimination that's responsible for the 68 percent illegitimacy rate among blacks? The 1999 Bureau of Census report might raise another racial discrimination question. Among black households that included a married couple, over 50 percent were middle class earning above $50,000, and 26 percent earned more than $75,000. <b>How in the world did these black families manage not to be poor? Did America's racists cut them some slack?</b>"
Want to fix the problem? Divert welfare into other programs geared towards addressing families how to fend for themselves. Sit down with folks and teach them about debt. Teach about the benefits of home ownership. Teach about accumilating wealth. etc etc. Don't just blame them for not taking responsibility...teach them how to take responsibility. If children are raised in environments where these things don't happen (because their parents didn't know), then the circle continues. Here's a thought: Reward people (maybe moniterily) for positive results. Instead of decreasing Welfare benefits because you got a raise or increasing Welfare because you had another baby, make payments based on positive behavior. Here are some random ideas that I haven't thought out: 1. Pay bonuses to children of poverty families for good grades. 2. Pay bonuses to children for attending tutoring sessions. 3. Pay bonuses to children for college applications and acceptances. 3. Pay MORE money (short term) in welfare when somebody gets a job...not less. 4. Pay MORE money when somebody in poverty gets a raise...not less. (again...short term) 5. Setup something similar to a 401k and have government matching based on their contribution. Also have financial advisors to teach people the basics. 6. When unemployeed, pay bonuses for each interview attended. 7. Provide single parent families a reasonable stipend for childcare while the parent is at work. (this would also create jobs as care givers) 8. Provide some sort of reward for paying bills on time. 9. Provide rewards for not carrying debt. If you want to change behavior, pay people. This will create a culture of positive reinforcement for productive behavior. Its simple. In poverty sticken areas, there is a culture of poverty that breeds more poverty. I was raised beleiving I was going to go to college. That simple mindset affected my behavior growing up. Children in poverty are raised with different mindsets.
This is exactly the crux of the problem. It's all about the mindset. The relative success of Asian-Americans (who have surpassed whites in median family income) can largely stem from their strong educational and academic traditions (in spite of affirmative action). I see no reason why blacks cannot strive for and achieve the same goals.
In Asian community, education is highly valued for thousands of years, black community does not have the same tradition. African Americans are encourage to compete in sports or try the entertainment fields not files, where the success rate is very low when compared to the field Asian Americans strive for. I believe black community needs strong leaders to change this trend, Jessie Jackson and those like him are certainly not doing it though.
