How Not To Be Poor -- by Walter Williams

If they are on minimum wage, are they eligible for medicaid?

 

Yeha that's what I'm saying. Geez - you're one fiery dude. I'm not white.

After living several years in South Central Los Angeles - I do think there is a feeling of entitlement pervading through many in that community. The multitudes of people who go to school, and succeed are often accused of "selling out". Those who do leave the community are sometimes criticized for "not giving back to the neighborhood". And too many parents do not care about the children's education. In many instances, it is music or athletics that young males see as vehicles to success - not education or academics (maybe that's why black women attend college at far greater rates than their male counerparts). The Korean shopkeepers are seen as exploiters and invaders (I myself, have been accosted even though I'm Chinese).

These are problems that have little to do with racism. I just think the PC mindset of your country often encourages these feelings. Here you are - bashing others who may think that Walter Williams is on to something.

 

Why do they blame Koreans? I fail to see the connection.

 

Because that's all they can afford. Minor health problems can be catastrophic when you are not insured. When I didn't have insurance I avoided the doctor and dentist even when I really needed it. There were some perscriptions I really would of liked to have during that time too. The last job I had dropped the company insurance right when I was eligible for it. A few weeks later my back went out and I had a very hard time just walking for months. I was worried that I wouldn't be normal again. There is no way I could afford a doctor, MRI etc. If you want people to work, they need to afford to be healthy enough to do it. I don't think that's asking too much. I and have a feeling my situation was not extremely rare.

This is all about good ol American greed.

 

There is a very large percentage of Korean-owned shops (liquor stores, food, clothes, etc.)

A significant portion of the people there view Koreans as unwelcome outsiders who are making money off them.

During the LA riots - there were well-publicized reports of Koreans with rifles atop rooftops. They were obvious targets of the rioters.

 

The sad is that the Kroeans should have been targeting the govt officials with those rifles.

The National guard and police were first placed right there in Korea town, and could have protected it. But then they got a call, and the pulled back to protect Beverly Hills.

Traditionally Koreans do well financially, because of a culture geard toward goals of top colleges, making money, and working unbelievably hard to get those things for them and definitely for their children. But they are often so busy working and sticking within their own community, that they don't get involved in govt. That allows problems like what happened with the riots. To the govt. the Koreans were expendable, and they had to protect Beverly Hills.

African American and Koreans should both become more active in local and political affairs. That was one of the sad things about the riots and the divide between some in those communities. They should be working together toward the same thing. That thing is taking a share of control in the govt.

If you ever get a chance to hear the Korean activist and writer KW Lee speak do so. He's really amazing.

 

I thnk Walter Williams is a pompous @ss and I think that there still is a lot of inherent and latent racism that still needs to be addressed but in general I agree with his and Bill Cosby's overall point.

From dealing with poor minority groups I think there is a real values problems. While there still are limits on educational and career opportunites due to racism there are opportunities. At the same time information technology has made knowledge available much widely than it ever has been. A teenager living in South Central LA has far more access to information just by logging onto the Internet at the public library than someone going to Harvard 25 years ago. It is very possible to escape poverty and become well educated and materially successful even for the most disadvantaged minority group.

I do think this is a problem with what minorities and particularly African Americans are valuing. That the heroes are more likely to sports and entertainment stars than academic or business leaders is part of the problem and another part is that because of slavery and racism African Americans and Native Americans reject education since it litterally was used to wipe out their own cultures. This leads to a situation where the desire to maintain cultural identity actually harms their ability to succeed.

Since this is a problem within their societies itself I'm not sure this is something that can be solved by outside groups. We can help address problems of latent racism and inequitable opportunities but its up to the minorities to take those opportunities. Malcolm X addressed the problem directly by talking about the need for Blacks to get educated to become economically self-sufficient and its probably going to take another Malcolm X to solve the current problems.

 

I can understand social bias, social stressors, and time placed upon any cultural group to fit into their new surrounds can, and perhaps did, cause many cultures to lose their identity.

But, how does a culture reject education? Are you refering to today's cultural outlook on education, or past cultural outlook on education?

 

Anyone who teaches their children to "reject education" is an irresponsible idiot. I'm all for maintaining a sense of heritage and cultural identity, but you have to draw the line somewhere.

I'm pretty sure that smallpox, the US Cavalry, and the eradication of the buffalo herds were more than just minor irritants to the Native Americans.

 

Too much $.

 

that's EXACTLY what I said. You just put more effort into it.

 

Well I guess I'm just more pompous and pedantic than you!

 

I'm not advocating this in anyway just saying what I've heard from Native Americans. Up until the 1950's Native Amerian children were taken away from their families and educated in government and/or Christian schools where they were forbidden from speaking their language, practicing their religion, or any other part of their culture. At worst this was meant to deliberately stamp out Indian culture and at best it was meant to help them assimilate.

Unlike Asians who come from cultures that have long valued formal education and who largely have come here for education or are the children of people who came here for education historically Blacks and Native American's experience with formal education hasn't been that good.

 

I meant Health Savings Accounts :s

 

Given all this, how do you account for the fact that the real world data shows that black people as a group earn significantly less than white people?

I don't disagree with any of the points made, but given that at no point since the end of slavery (or before, for that mater) has there been any type of earning parity.

You can account for this by either claiming that black people as a group are inherently inferior or that as a group they handicaped in some way relative to other groups. (I dare anybody to claim the former. I have 200+ years of experimental science that I can whip out to prove otherwise, in spite of clear bias the other way.)

Unless you wish to destroy all credibility, then, you need to accept that the average black person is just as capable as the average white person, but the evidence clearly doesn't imply this in the real world. Why?

The arguement that the author makes is correct. There are certan behaviors that result in better outcomes, but, in a horribly pernicious way, the arguement sidesteps common concepts of behavioral psychology, and suggest that environment has no bering on upbringing. After all, if you are capable of seeing that steps x, y, and z are the steps to a better life, it should be self-evident to everybody, right?

What you believe and what you value is very much dependent on the beliefs and values of your caregiver when you are a child. This is the traditional nature/nurture arguement. It's fairly well established that both nature and nurture play significant roles in developement. Again, if anybody seeks to deny this, I'd be glad to bring forth years of evidence.

So, if we accept that the nature side of the equation is equal, then the only part of the nature-nurture arguement left is nurture. How did the way that black populations nurture their young become different from white populations?

IMHO, it is clear that the problem is one of "insufficient civil rights remediation", starting at the end of the civil war through the present day. We as a nation tasked ourselves with ending slavery and creating a society that didn’t judge people based on race. We whitewashed the outside of a termite ridden home and claimed we'd removed the termites.

A reasonable argument can be made about the cost of remediation, and there is merit to the argument. If the problem had been fixed correctly, it would have been far cheaper. While this is correct, when it comes to similar cases, say for asbestos remediation, it is normal for damages to far exceed any initial savings incurred by shoddy or fraudulent work.

A 130 year old job of poor social repair work still remains unfinished. The workman has come out to the jobsite many times claimed to have fixed it, but every time has done little more than whitewash on a new facade. To me, the author's argument seems like a termite person attempting to blame future structural failure on their client's behavior, when they failed to properly repair the damage in the first place. Perhaps the final failure could be the result in part of some behavior, but if the building had been repaired properly in the first place it wouldn't be an issue.

 

Haha, you said whitewashed.

I'm inclined to believe that the spirit of entrepreneurship will only be sustained from within their community with no real assistance from the outside. It worked with other minorities and that's the only way to break the glass ceiling. No amount of government intervention will help crack that barrier for any minority. It's just the reality of our world. And to clarify myself, I mean the racial distribution of the corporate world is not proportional to the population.

Likewise, it'll take an effort from within to change its export culture towards responsible means.