How much is a 90-day freeze on construction in the West Bank worth?

Do you really want me to start posting graphic pictures from every Islamist attack that happens around the globe?

We are talking 226 terror attacks with 1028 people killed only during Ramadan 2010 (according to one source; for comparison, all other religions 1 terror attack, 1 person killed).

 

When did we start talking about Islamic terror attacks around the globe? This is about Israel and Palestine here.

 

I'm sure he'll find a way to blame Israel for all of those too.

 

My point is that to underscore your argument, you do not need to post gruesome pictures. If you open that can of worms, I have plenty to post from the other side.

 

nope i didn't... To me all organized religion is quite silly... I guessing your blaming all Palestinians for those terror attacks?

 

what other side... I'm not a Muslim supporter or a supporter of Jews... I could give two ****s about who killed who elsewhere in the world this thread... This thread is about Israel and Palestine and me comparing the civilian casualty rate between the two.

 

ATW, out of curiosity, do you have any Muslim friends?

 

Yes, a few, not very many though. One friend of mine is half German, half Turkish, grew up in Germany, he went from not being religious at all to becoming sort of a hardcore muslim while he was living in London (he also did the Haj (sp.?)), then he moved to Istanbul and became a lot more relaxed again. Then there are a couple of guys from Lebanon from my MBA. And probably a couple others I am not thinking about right now.

 

not if it means that in 90 days there just going to continue building. if they do i say we just tell them to grow up and keep the jets

 

how does it promote peace by giving someone weapons. idiotic.

just like both sides of the conflict. and the entire middle east for that matter. and for the good ole' U.S.A. trying to play puppet master in the region.

 

It's a never ending cycle. Muslims never wanted a Jewish state to be established in a region they had seen as the heart of their world, and went to war to stop it. The Palestinians got caught in the middle when Israel annexed part of their land.

They have resisted for decades, but let's face it, it wasn't until suicide bombing that Israel was willing to go to the peace table. That's sad in and of ittself, and terrorism is not justified, but neither is oppression of a people.

If you occupy a foreign land for 50 years, do you not expect radicalism to take place? Of course it will. it's just utter stupidity.

Israel is putting it's dream of a greater homeland at a cost of dragging the rest of the world into a larger mess. Shame on us for being part of that.

I think it's time we cut off aid to all countries that engage in any type of oppression or acts of terrorism. Israel and Palestine should both be cut off.

 

You hit the nail right on the head. World powers always play puppet master. Arm them and let them fight... They will buy more guns. Our government is heavily invested in arms and technology... The palestinians are and will always be a pawn to their neighbors that house extremism.

Russians to deal arms to Lebanon:
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/world/2010-11/15/c_13607935.htm

Russians say they may deal more arms to Syria:
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3958539,00.html

Some good news about possible Russian missile sales to Iran... but the Russians tend to flip flop depending on how much vodka is in the system:
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/09/nyet-russia-now-wont-sell-badass-missile-to-iran/

Ahmedinejad's funny/pathetic response to above article:
http://rt.com/politics/ahmadinejad-russia-weapons-satan/

 

What a treasure, ATW preaching against posting gruesome pictures.

 

Ha'Aretz reported today that US taxpayers are helping to build the settlements...
U.S. taxpayers are paying for Israel's West Bank occupation
According to a June 2010 fact sheet on the USAID Internet site, last year American taxpayers funded the paving of 63 kilometers of asphalt roads in the West Bank.
By Akiva Eldar Tags: Israel news US Israel settlements West Bank

Travelers along the "original" West Bank roads, the ones enabling drivers to bypass Palestinian villages, can see signs declaring "USAID from the American People."

The roads are one of the initiatives of the United States Agency for International Development for building infrastructure in underdeveloped countries. Israel has already proudly left the club of developing countries and is not among the clients of USAID. Nevertheless, it appears the Smith family of Illinois is making the occupation a little less expensive for the Cohen family of Petah Tikva.

According to a June 2010 fact sheet on the USAID Internet site, last year American taxpayers funded the paving of 63 kilometers of asphalt roads in the West Bank. It also says completion of a road in the southern part of the West Bank dramatically increased the amount of trade between Dahriya and Beer Sheva.

What the site doesn't say is that a significant segment of the road goes through Area C - the 60 percent of the West Bank under exclusive Israeli civilian and military control and responsibility under the interim agreement of 1995 (the second Oslo agreement ). The agreement states: "Territorial jurisdiction includes land (and ) subsoil."

This is not the only occupation-perpetuating road funded by American money. Dror Etkes, an expert on the settlements, noticed a few days ago USAID workers energetically laying asphalt on two roads in the Samaria region (northern West Bank ) that crosses Area C. Israelis haven't been traveling these roads for years now because the taxpayer (in this case, the Israeli taxpayer ) has already paved separate, wide, modern roads for them.

Etkes wondered how it is possible that the Obama administration, which is vociferously opposed to the continuation of the status quo in the West Bank, continues to subsidize the road for Israel. "If the state of Israel is insisting on continuing to hold on and de facto annex the West Bank," he says, "it should also be allocating the money needed to take care of the infrastructure."

I asked an American official why the administration isn't demanding of Israel that it fulfill its obligations and pay the price of the occupation out of its own pocket.

"Who told you we aren't demanding that?" replied the official. "We are also demanding a construction freeze in the settlements and you know at least as well as anyone else what is happening on the ground."

It is worth mentioning that the when the Palestinians sought permission to pave a short road in Area C to enable access to the planned town of Rawabi, Israel pulled out the Oslo accord and kicked them down the stairs. The USAID tractors don't have access to the area either.

However, when it suits his interest, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is a stickler for Oslo. A few days ago he announced that unilaterally declaring a Palestinian state would be considered a violation of the agreement. Tomorrow, incidentally, will mark the eighth anniversary of Foreign Minister Netanyahu's statement on Israel radio that "all the Oslo agreements are null and void."

A USAID spokeswoman responded that the program's infrastructure projects "respond to the needs of the Palestinian people and are implemented in response to requests from the Palestinian Authority. Many of the USAID funded projects cross from one area to another in accordance with the needs of the Palestinian communities and the specific project. There are roads and water pipelines that cross through Area C or are adjacent to Area C as designs require and agreements with Civil Authorities allow."

No way home

The Oslo agreement, which is so close to Netanyahu's heart, also states that both sides see "the West Bank and Gaza Strip territory as a single territorial unit."

Nevertheless, since the outbreak of the second intifada, Israel has cut off almost entirely the connection between these two areas.

Security authorities make a point of expelling Gazans from the West Bank and they do not allow residents of Gaza to reunite with their families in the West Bank.

A year ago, in response to a petition to the High Court of Justice by the Hamoked Center for the Defense of the Individual, the State Prosecutor's Office said the policy does not apply to individuals who took up residence in the West Bank before the year 2000 and "about whom there exists no negative security material."

Be that as it may, during this past year a number of Palestinians have been expelled from the West Bank even though they arrived their prior to the cut-off date, and had no "negative security material" against them. Several have applied to Hamoked for help.

One of them, M.N., 29, went to Gaza in 2004 to participate in the mourning for his father. Since then he has been stuck and is in hiding from Hamas, which has issued an arrest warrant for him.

The coordinator of permits at the Coordination and Liaison Office in the Israel Defense Forces has recommended that M.N.'s request to return to the West Bank be granted. In the opinion appended to the recommendation, the aforementioned response by the prosecutor to the High Court of Justice is cited.

But the High Court of Justice is one thing and the reality is another. The Liaison Office's legal adviser rejected the recommendation and wrote that it is necessary "to be strict about consistency, paying attention to the fact that approving the request might be a precedent for approving similar requests." In another case handled by Hamoked, the adviser wrote that G.J. entered the West Bank in 2000 and should not be expelled under the guidelines. So why has G.J. been sent to Gaza and not allowed back in the West Bank?

"The aforementioned is a bachelor and he has no family connection in Judea and Samaria," was the response. Truly an excellent reason. The time has come for him to find a bride in Ramallah and marry.

 

Yeah - he's right too. No need for it.

 

Had to bump this based on what I saw here in the West Bank. I traveled through most major cities (Bethlehem, Ramallah, Jericho, Nablus, Hebron, etc..)

These settlement freezes are just laughable. I saw plenty of construction. Hell I took pictures of it. Plus if you ever look across the street from settlements you'll see illegal construction by settlers that couldnt get permits from the Israeli government. Also whats frustrating is that half the time the Israeli military presence thats supposed to enforce these things consists of a bunch of 18 year olds serving their mandatory period in the army and most of these kids just dont care. You also see the same thing at checkpoints as many of these kids just arent mature enough or trained well enough to deal with the traffic and then they end up doing something stupid to make everyone mad.

Also interesting to see was in Hebron there are settlements within the city itself so the Israelis are basically internally walling off parts of the city.

Pretty depressing to see. I'll post more later.

 

Anyone has the right to try to buy these weapons. However, Israel is very militaristic and firmly in control of neo-con types. It is not the old feel good Israel of the Kibbutzes and making the desert bloom. Thirty plus years of implementing increasingly harsh apartheid procedures has brutalized them. They need to be rescued from themselves-- only they can't see it.. They need an intervention and papa USA is the only one who can do it. Cut junior lose. Let him face the world on his own. Quit subsidizing his bad habits. A little tough love might still bring him around.

 

Nice post, I remember noticing the same thing about the uninterested kids serving in the IDF when I was in Israel last year. Post any pictures if you can.