How much did race/culture play into the NY/DEN suspension?

This is factually incorrect.

This, too, is fundimentally incorrect. Reality is fairly objective. I can opine that you enjoy (*insert random disgusting and demeaning act*) but the fact that it is my opinion doesn't somehow make it as valid as the opinion that you dont like (*insert random disgusting and demeaning act*) (assuming you don't). We can have you engage in (*insert random disgusting and demeaning act*) and measure blood flow to specific parts of your midbrain.

It may be difficult to prove that an opinion is wrong, but fundimentally, despite whatever confidence-building lies the public education system tells you, it is quantifiable. Sometimes it is very, very difficult to accurately quantify, but that is irrelevant.

 

i agree and thats why i didnt vote. there was no option for "suspensions are too long, but race wasnt a factor". in the grand scheme of things, this fight wasnt that big a deal. nobody should have gotten more than 3 or 4 games.

im not saying race doesnt play a factor at times. i do think that stern doesnt like the "hip-hop" image in the league and tries to quell it w/ stuff like dress codes. but in this case i dont think race was a factor - like others have mentioned, it has more to do w/ the detroit/indiana brawl and all the ramifications from that.

plus david stern is a little control-freak.

15 games is way too much more anthony. maybe if stern said the 15 games were for being a p***y and running away after getting in a cheap shot.

 

As you say, there have been fights throughout nba history. Even in the 80's and 90's, the league was filled with more black players than other sports. HipHop has been around for 20-30 years. The only thing that has changed in the last year, is the Detroit/Indiana brawl with fans and players fighting each other in the stands. In 2002, Rasheed wallace was suspended for 3 games and Bonzi Wells for 2 games for fighting. The difference is this was before Detroit/Indiana.

Race and hip hop has little to do with it, since hiphop has been around for 20-30 years and blacks have been in the league for a long time even doing the Bad Boys era. David Stern has been the commissioner for a long time and he has been giving 2-3 game suspensions as late as 2002(Rasheed/Bonzi).

 

In 1950, Red Auerbach was the first person to choose a black player in the NBA draft.

In 1963, Red was the first coach to start five black players.

Red was an amazing man. He did alot for the sport, you have to check this out. Think about that. It was only 40+ years ago, when he was the first to start five black players in basketball. That wasn't that long ago. Doesn't that sound wierd when we look at the sport nowadays and think the league was never predominantly white. It's strange to think they never had a starting five of all black players until Red did it.

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/specials/auerbach/

 

ESPN has a cool list of brawls and the suspensions from NBA history. It is funny seeing that most suspensions were less than 5 games. Remember 4 years ago, when Shaq threw a punch at Brad Miller he got only suspended for 3 games. It only seems like it was from a different era. This was pretty recent. It was only in 2002.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2701111

Notable brawls in NBA history


Dec. 16, 2006
• The Knicks and Nuggets brawled at Madison Square Garden near the end of Denver's blowout win. Mardy Collins' hard foul on Denver's J.R. Smith sparked the fighting, and before the skirmishes began to cool, Nuggets star Carmelo Anthony landed a sucker-punch that led to a 15-game suspension. Commissioner David Stern came down hard on both teams, with Smith and New York's Nate Robinson drawing 10-game suspensions. Collins got six games, Knicks teammate Jared Jeffries got four and the Knicks' Jerome James and Denver's Nene were both penalized one game for leaving the bench area during the chaos. The teams also were fined $500,000. Curiously, Knicks coach Isiah Thomas, who had warned Anthony in the game's final minute not to go into the lane before the mayhem started, was not disciplined.

Nov. 19, 2004
• One of the worst brawls in U.S. sports history took place near the end of the Indiana Pacers-Detroit Pistons game. Fans and players threw punches; spectators tossed a chair, beer, ice and popcorn. Nine players were suspended more than 130 games (146 total games because Ron Artest also missed playoffs).

Dec. 20, 2002
• After Portland's Rasheed Wallace hits a game-winning shot, a scrum breaks out between Golden State's Chris Mills and Portland's Bonzi Wells. Fans threw beer bottles at the Blazers as they left the court and Wallace tried to go after a fan who threw something at him. Mills tried to get into the Blazers' locker room afterward, and after being rebuffed, got a group of friends and parked his car in front of Portland's team bus. He was suspended three games, Wells was suspended for two, and Wallace was fined.

Jan. 12, 2002
• Upset by a series of hard fouls under the basket, the Lakers' Shaquille O'Neal reacts to a flagrant foul by Chicago's Charles Oakley by trying to punch a nearby Brad Miller in the back of the head, but misses. Several players end up spilling into the crowd and all three players are suspended, including three games for O'Neal.

Jan. 15, 2001
• Marcus Camby was poked in the eye by Danny Ferry and was being restrained by his teammates when he lunged after Ferry and threw a windmill punch. The punch did not hit anybody, but Camby collided with Jeff Van Gundy as the coach jumped between them -- much like Van Gundy did in a fight between the Knicks' Larry Johnson and the Heat's Alonzo Mourning during the 1998 playoffs. Van Gundy ended up needing 12-15 stitches to close a cut above his left eye. Camby was suspended for 5 games and Ferry 1 game.

Nov. 10, 1995
• In an unprecedented move, the NBA suspends 16 players for fighting during the Pacers-Kings game in Indianapolis. Forward Dale Davis of the Pacers and Michael Smith of the Kings received the greatest penalties -- both received two-game suspensions without pay and $20,000 in fines. The pair fought with 2:43 left in the third quarter of the Kings' 119-95 victory. Kings center Duane Causewell was suspended for one game without pay and fined $7,500 because he left the bench and did not try to break up the bench-clearing fracas in which punches and choking took place. The 13 other players, including Pacers star Reggie Miller, received one-game suspensions and $2,500 fines for leaving the bench areas. The Kings penalized: Tyus Edney, Byron Houston, Sarunas Marciulionis, Olden Polynice, Lionel Simmons and Walt Williams. The Pacers penalized: Travis Best, Adrian Caldwell, Duane Ferrell, Fred Holberg, Mark Jackson, Miller and Dwayne Schintzius.

May 13, 1994
• During a playoff game, JoJo English of the Bulls and Derek Harper of the Knicks start a bench-clearing fight that nearly ends up in the lap of commissioner David Stern, who happens to be sitting courtside at the game.

March 24, 1993
• Normally mild-mannered Suns guard Kevin Johnson slugs New York's Doc Rivers, precipitating a bench-clearing brawl that gets uglier when an out-of-uniform Greg Anthony races in to begin throwing haymakers at Johnson. Anthony is suspended five games for his role in the fracas.

April 20, 1990
• Although Detroit's Bill Laimbeer was involved in many famous fights -- including throwdowns with Larry Bird, Bob Lanier and Robert Parish -- his most famous probably came in a playoff game against the 76ers. Laimbeer and Charles Barkley, two of the biggest, meanest players in the game, came to blows and were fined $20,000 for their actions -- the biggest fines in NBA history at the time.

Nov. 9, 1984
• In an early-season showdown between Boston and Philadelphia, two legends who were normally on good terms -- Larry Bird and Julius Erving -- shocked fans when they exchanged words, pushes and shoves that lead to a bench-clearing brawl. Both players were fined $7,500.

April 24, 1983
• During a first-round playoff game between the Celtics and Hawks, Boston's Danny Ainge takes exception to a Tree Rollins elbow and tackles the Atlanta center. With both players on the ground, Rollins bites Ainge's finger, earning a five-game suspension.

Dec. 9, 1977
• In the midst of a brawl involving the Lakers' Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and the Rockets' Kevin Kunnert, L.A.'s Kermit Washington wheels and delivers "The Punch", a crushing blow to the face of Houston's Rudy Tomjanovich. Tomjanovich suffered severe fractures of the face and skull and was hospitalized for weeks. Washington was suspended for 26 games, which was the longest suspension for on-court activity in NBA history until the suspension of Ron Artest for 73 regular-season games (and later 13 playoff games) in 2004-05.

 

the nba in the 80s was a boutique product compared to what the nba is today. in today's world companies make it big when kids spending their parents money. if the nba wants to continue to print money, they need to make it kid-friendly to a certain extent, it's all about protecting the product

 

Don't forget the 90's and up until 2003 , they didn't try that in the 90's. Remember when Sir Charles took Shaq down for the Rockets in 1999. I laughed and cheered! He got 1 game suspension.

Bonzi got suspended for going after Chris Mills in 2002. =Rasheed Wallace even tried going after a fan that threw beer at him. They gave him a 2 game suspension. Why didn't they do it 4 years ago but now? It's not like the rap scene is that much different from 4 years ago. It's not like hiphop is more violent nowadays than the gangsta rap of the 90s and early 2000's.

Come to think about it. It was only about 2 years ago when they started giving these 15 game supensions. Is it a culture thing? Most of the players playing now are the same ones playing back then. Culturally, things are much different from then either. Bonzi ain't more gangsta and tattooed now then he was back then. He only got 2 games. Even if he was of the "other" culture, he would have gotten 2 games.

 

I don't think it was race as much as culture and as others posters noted the Ind/Det brawl has really altered the perception of how the NBA is perceived in popular culture. If it had been primarily white players involved I'm guessing they still would've gotten the same suspensions because the perception isn't so much about white or black but about the NBA being a thuggish league.

 

Danny Ainge and Bill Laimbeer are considered hard-nosed and Nate Robinson is branded a thug. I tell you who of these three were dirtier players and got into more fights.

 

Timing is everything. Stern laid down "zero tolerance" after the Indiana-Detroit brawl. What you used to get away with is irrelevant.

If any player white or black were playing today the way Laimbeer played in his prime, that player would be getting suspended regularly, and for serious amounts of time.

Stern got this one right, at least with respect to the players. I still hope he can nail Isiah, but he needs proof.

 

I'm not talking about David Stern's suspension, I'm talking about the way people are labeled.

 

Anyone who can not see that the length of these suspensions is directly correlated to the Det Ind brawl a couple of years ago is a blithering idiot. It is not a race thing, period.

 

These are based on trying to NOT have a THUG Image
and
unfortunately in America
Thug for most folx equals Black

That as about the extent that race plays into it
as far as I am concerned

so . . I said Slightly

Rocket River

 

this is the incident I referenced earlier, I thought it was a playoff game but I didn't know for sure. this was a very nasty looking fight, like I said earlier, I believe someone actually held bird as erving got in a couple of shots. and it didn't even result in a suspension. it was just as ugly as the ny/den fight.

looking back I'm going to change my opinion that biggest factors in the length of the suspensions are the pacer/piston brawl and media coverage.

 

Same situation. Fight invloving black players

 

...and fans

 

Don't forget that hillbilly Karla Malone.

 

I agree. If a black player can't suspended by a jew for beating on the white guy. Then it's probably not a culture issue.