I think the plan would include signing the FA before signing Mobley and your draft picks. Using Davo figures, that would put us around $41 million. Gray, Augman and Shaw are FA after this year. I'm not sure if the Rockets bought out Maclean's and/or Maloney's contract and how that would effect the bottom line. If they did AND the buyout amount counts against this year's contract, then you're around $39 million. If not then your around $44 million (I think Maclean has 1 more year at $3 million). Bottom line - heypartner is right in the sense that the only way to get under the cap is to trade $9 million next-year-dollar player(s) away for a soon-to-be-FA. Otherwise, we are going to be right at or over the cap even if you wait to sign your picks and Mobley. The bigger question? Is trading your $9 million next-year-dollar player(s) going to get you a FA better than the ones you traded? I seriously doubt TD or GH will come to Houston if we continue to play like we do. The other players on the FA list aren't the kind of players we need in our rebuilding puzzle. So the answer IMHO is no. It'll be the end of the 2000-2001 season before we have any serious money. And unfortunately, I'm not sure that's going to be a good FA year. [This message has been edited by ArtVandolet (edited December 30, 1999).]
I dont mean to slam him but bill the rocket guy is always always ALWAYS wrong. he is a clutch city-want=to-be and always tries to scoop things first and deny things said on clutch city sight. problem is his said inside stuff is awful and to my recollection he has never once been right and the things he denies are accurate. ray allen? he once said ervin johnson was a lock to be a rocket. now he is saying everyone is wrong and that he knows for a fact that the rockets will have 8 or 10 million in cap room and tim duncan has said he has interest in houston. pure bull****. it is very scary because the rocket guy has a sight and he pumps these lies (may be not lies but incorrect information) to the fans. [This message has been edited by DamonP (edited December 30, 1999).]
heypartner, I grasp that completely. Do you grasp the fact that marginal veteran players with expensive expiring contracts have more value than Cato and Williams? The point I am making is that other teams won't take on journeymen players from the Rockets unless the deal is overwhelming in their favor. Even after doing this chiseling to get under the salary cap, there is no guarantee that the free agent that you want will come here. If the Rockets knew beforehand that Duncan would come here, they would be knifed by the NBA for tampering. So far, Gill is the only player with a decent sized expiring contract that has been mentioned in a possible trade with the Rockets. That is a very slender reed to get your hopes up on. I listed about 11 players with expensive expiring contracts and the only idea that is bandied about is Gill. Too much time spent on an idea that is an extreme longshot. Odds are better on PJ coaching the Rockets next year than Duncan or Hill coming to Houston. Mango
heypartner, I just ran with the ball on this issue since it was in a thread about cap space and some people were starting to get HAPPY in their posts about the possibilities if the Rockets were able to pull off some convoluted deals. Just a straight trade and renounce with only Cato involved? There is/was another thread going about the lottery and the needs of teams projected to be in the lottery. Athletic big men seem to be quite popular and there would probably be several teams willing to take a shot on Cato. Then that leaves the Rockets with Dream on a farewell tour, Hamilton and TMass if he is resigned. The Rockets would be out looking for another athletic big man. I can't see Cato as a HOF player, but a servicable journeyman. Rather keep the bird in the hand than go searching in the bush for better. Mango
Interesting capology discussion. In keeping with the Holiday spirit, let me add my brief two cents worth before the end of the year and subsequent world peace meltdown forces us all to parboil our money and eat them in lieu of contaminated foodstuffs. 1. The exemptions we have and will gain next year can only be used IF we are OVER the cap. I still doubt we get any dispensation from a Barkley injury-retirement, but if we do, then that exception will be held outside regard to cap or cap overage. 2. (IMHO) The core of this team enters around Francis, Anderson and Mobley.For various reasons: Francis ... inherent and irreplaceable value to any Rocket team of the future, Anderson... because of a personal guarantee from Les, Mobley... his upside and his relative cost (approx $5.5 to 6M a year) is obvious as he will be the bet young prospect out there at that price. They should be talking extension as we speak. MaybeCato. Maybe Carlos also. But more likely around the three kids. Hakeem will not be traded. We had the opportunity and it is gone. Hakeem has set his last year rules. He is more emphatic than before. He also is more accepting of his"new role" than prior to his injury and the change in team direction. The point is, other than those three (really four,with Hakeem) everyone else will be trade negotiable for any trade discussions this year or next. 3. The salary cap is extremely soft. Exceptions and exemptions are designed to supersede the CBA and directly move the "ceiling" of any team's salary outlay. It's primary function is to restrict the "ceilings" of individual player contracts, moreso than team payrolls. Complicated clauses such as base player designations ( e.g. VanHorn's contract) do cause a restriction of arbitrary movement of players from one team to another. But other avenues of trade are not as restictive as some are led to believe. 4. (IMHO)Tim Duncan will be going to San Antonio, Orlando or Miami. SanAntone because I'm a nice guy I'll not hurt this team by leaving, or, ties to teammates and fans and a general comfortableness in his chosen profession sort of thing. Orlando because they offer him sunshine, closer to home in the carib, and they will offer him everything not nailed down to play there until he retires at age fifty. Miami because Pat knows with Tim Duncan on the roster he will have a one-two (TM and Zo) that will be even more dominating than the TM Admiral duo. Incidentally, any agreements that the Spurs can offer visa-vie a wink-wink, nudge-nudge future blockbuster money deal can and will likely be offered by the Florida teams.The so-called cap factor or CBA restictions will not promote or prevent his movement one way or another.
Popeye, Can't Spurs offer Duncan the MOST. The others cannot match San An's Offer only through Sign and Trade. If he leaves wouldn't he get less than San An's Max? If not . .. what holds him to San An but being a nice guy? Rocket River
Rocket River: My point was that although the Spurs may be able to offer him more initially, he maybe looking at (or enticed to look at) the next signing as his career ending team move. That is, a contract that would lead to longterm committment for the rest of his career. With that in mind, it doesn't matter what amount he signs for next year, as long as he trusts the team he signs with to eventually give him a "make up" amount (wink,wink,nudge,nudge) that will compensate him for any disparity caused by signing with a team other than San Antonio. Anyone think that little chore can't be accomplished by his buddy Doc Rivers or the master of the motivators Riley? I think Popo and the Spurs would be in a bit of trouble if they thought Duncan would stay simply because he can be offered more initial dollars up front by his present team. Cheers
Phoenix did those type deals in the past, so Miami and Orlando could do the same. Since Miami had the J Howard and 'Zo contract snafu several years ago, would they face any extra policing from the NBA if they signed Duncan? Mango
Heypartner...Now I hope you finally realize why I gave up posting the Rox figures for the upcoming seasons. Mango has seen the amount of times Ive posted salaries and where the Rox are going to lie for the upcoming seasons. Davo...Some of your figures are off and you forgot to add Maclean. Heypartner is right, the Rox will be around 42 million after this season. Hakeem will earn 15 million not 17 Williams is at 5 million not 4 Francis will be at 2.5 not 3.5 Anderson 2.2 Maloney 2.2 Maclean 3 Rogers 3 Drew 1.2 Bullard is 1 million not 2 million Thomas 1 million Cato 5.3 million roughly 42 million. You can't assume Mobley is going to resign here, or that Tmass will be resigned. You really cant guess as to where the Rox will be drafting or that they don't trade their picks (as so many teams who don' pick in the top 7 do so often)
at the most we can have 9mil, if hakeem retires and they renounce everyone, but in all likelyhood we'll have around 2-3 mil and we'll probably end up with a mid level player.
Mango, I think we are agreeing afterall. My effort is not to talk about possibilities; just capology. The trade and renounce tool is something teams indeed use. That is my only point. What is possible. Dreamshake and I just do this for our own sanity. Cause you can't rely on what you read in the papers when it comes to cap talk. Your point is: Why talk about it if there isn't any one to get and renounce? I agree. Gill's the only possibility it looks like. Thanks for the list. Note one other option, you can exchange Cato for a 3 yr rookie scale player, and renounce them. This is something you'd do if you woke up in April and said to yourself, why the hell did we sign Cato to that extension? Mango...I don't believe any of this will happen. Nor do I think there is a quality chance in hell of getting a useful free agent even if we did all that. I'm just tossing out numbers...and CBA rules. cheers
Rocket River, To answer you question, SA, as Duncan's current team, can resign him to a higher raise scale, plus offer him 7 years. The maximum 1st year pay is still $9m no matter where he goes. Here's how it works: SA Can offer $9m plus 12.5% raise each year for a maximum of seven years Other teams Can offer $9m plus 10% raise each year for a maximum of SIX years. (Raises are not compounded by the way.)
