How many believe that at least 50% of Tea Partiers harbor racist views?

thanks franchise. coming from you that means something. although I've disagreed with you on just about every single issue, I've always respected you because you seem knowledgeable and you keep a level head when debating.

this process sucks. I hate it. I want to believe in the big guy in the sky, but when people understand how christiany and the bible were 'created'(by man) and how the bible and chrsitianty were developed. the evidence is crippling.

I'm just really ashamed to look at some of the stuff I've posted here. basing my entire beliefs off one book, instead of actually doing some simple homework....

anyway, sorry for derailing. but, just to augment finalsbound's post.... there was so much anger, depression, guilt, and more depression when I finally came to the conclusion that christianity is a scam. but in the end it's worth it. the music sounds better, the lights are brighter, and the people are more beautiful. I don't care if that sounds homo. It's true. having a truer understanding of my place in life and what other people really mean..... it's just a relief to truly comprehend the fact that religion is a huge waste.

/ramble.

 

LL, that is so cool. We have a lot in common now. I denied my doubts for so long that it was just eating away at me. Facing them (which basically meant doing a lot of reading and research) was the best thing I've ever done. It was tough but you come out with a greater understanding of who you are. You're definitely not alone.

 

How is it ridiculous? Your argument was that this is about public safety do you not agree that traffic accidents are a public safety issue? Both laws are enforced but you seem to be saying we need more draconian enforcement of immigration laws. You have said that this is because of safety. If so why not draconian enforcement of laws that are a much greater immediate threat?

Not sure how that is relevant or why you brought that up in the first place. Does that mean that you don't think traffic accidents are such a big concern since most drivers are US citizens?

That is good for you but I consider that illegal immigration has always been part of this country and a major part. Consider that the European colonist didn't apply for papers from the Native Americans.

If we are very concerned about public safety then yes we should draconionally enforce laws on those too. Do you agree? Again I am the one who is saying we shouldn't have draconion enforcement of laws you are the one who is saying we should.

 

And do you care to explain why that is?

I have laid out my reasoning. Lynus said this was about enforcing our laws because they are our laws. Fair enough then should we also enforce all our laws as rigidly such as speeding and jaywalking? Do you agree that speeding and jaywalking like entering the country illegally are violations of our laws?

He next said this was about public safety. Fair enough then are you aware that there are vastly far more deaths caused in traffic accidents than illegal immigration. Do you agree? If so then what is the greater threat to public safety?

I am not making an apples to oranges comparison but a straightforward comparison based on the factors mentioned.

 

I agree with FB and Finals and it takes a lot of courage to re exam one's deepest held beliefs and even more to talk about that publicly.

For what's it worth while I've frequently disagreed with you've always seemed like a good guy willing to discuss things and not just out to troll. Also while I'm not a Christian I think there is a lot of good to it and its more than just a scam.

I honestly recommend speaking not just to your current pastor but talk to many other pastors. Even just here on CF.net I would recommend you talk to MadMax and Rhester. I haven't seen them posting much recently but knowing them I don't think they would mind if you contacted them. They might give you a different and more expansive view of Christianity than you feel like you have had.

 

I think at least 50% of people harbor racist views.

 

It's ridiculous because YOU ARE COMPARING IMMIGRATION TO TRAFFIC VIOLATIONS. And you keep using the word "draconian." I don't want "draconian" anything. I'd be perfectly happy with tools in place to help better enforce the laws as they are written, then we can talk reform. We stop the bleeding, so to speak, and then work on addressing the underlying causes and try to make it better.

I brought it up because you're obsessed with the idea of car accidents and traffic violations equating to immigration.

So….what? Just open the borders to all comers? If that's your opinion, then we'll have to agree to disagree. And European colonists and Native Americans? Really? The country wasn't even a country back then. The WORLD was an entirely different place. Nations were made by who killed and conquered more people. This has nothing to do with anything.

There's that word again. We need to protect our borders. That's all.

I don't know....10K, maybe, to augment the border patrol. And we're already paying the Guard, so while yes, it would cost money, it's not like we have to build the Guard from scratch. In fact, missions like this are the Guard's purpose. And 10K does not comprise the entirety of the National Guard, so we don't have to worry about running out of them. Re: training and readiness, there's no better way to prepare than to be out in the field in real-world situations.

It wouldn't be cheap. Or easy.

Why? Because Mexico is the country on our southern border, maybe? We ARE talking about states that border Mexico, no?

You have to be involved in a prior police matter anyway. It's not just 'Oh hey, look at the brown guy. Let's lock him up.' And if it comes to that, then the offending people need to be fired.

When we started the discussion, one of my first thoughts was (I swear to Christ), "I'll bet the folks in D&D would love this…."

It was well-meaning. And good training, as well. Learning how to handle and respect other cultures/ethnicities/races is always a good thing, no matter your profession.

I'm not an RN yet. I have the degree, but I'm waiting to take my licensure boards. My critical care rotation and my work last summer as a Nurse Tech were all in the ER.

But thanks.

 

This is related to Finalsbound and to you. I think a lot of it depends on what you felt Christianity was in the first place. If I'd been taught by FB's parents what Christianity was, I doubt I'd be a Christian today. But my understanding of what it was and always is different.

I'm not saying I'm right or anyone else is wrong. But the more I dive in deep, the deeper I feel a connection, and understanding(at least as to what I believe Christianity to be.). I was recently at a Greek orthodox wedding. Most of the new testament is in Greek so it is interesting to hear them talk about scripture and what it means. The word obedience in the bible comes from a greek word with the same root as the word to listen to. In this case they were talking about obedience to spouse, but knowing the original language and root words like that, it adds more meaning than just reading it.

Listening to, and understanding something is different than just blind obedience. ANyway, I'm not saying anyone should have to see bible study the way I see it, or that it should change your mind about belief in God, just that different people's understandings are different or that people's beliefs can change and grow.

Anyway I didn't mean to seem like I disrespected you earlier, because even in disagreement you were civil. I've never had a problem with disagreeing with people, or with people because I disagreed with them. But as much respect as I've had for you in the past, it's grown with you being able to come out and admit your change of heart about issues on this board. It takes a lot to do that.

In whatever way your spiritual investigations take you, I wish you the best, and hope that it's rewarding for you.

 

I think the Tea Party is just another example in our long historical line of conservative reactionary thought that simmers underneath the surface of this country and bursts forth every now and then when the status quo is threatened.

In this case, a watershed moment in the election of a man of color, holding progressive political beliefs, to our highest office.

We should expect this reactionary pushback from the remnants of Nixon's "silent majority" southern stategy. No surprise.

 

For sure. What scares me is that you now have a major national political party and media infrastructure serving as a mouthpiece for that pushback and trying to direct that anger for their own use. That's a dangerous game Repub pols and "party leaders" are playing.

 

By the way, these "comics" have been getting a little attention lately...

 

It's especially sad that they directly target children with this crap.

 

Goodness. Can't smell you're own crap can you? Same shht over and over and over. It doesn't matter the party, rocker, it's still just the same old reduntant crap.

 

BUT DID YOU HEAR WHITE PEOPLE CANNOT SAY THE N WORD. ITS A SHAMOCKERY

 

It does matter and there are definite differences between the parties. To pretend otherwise is to admit laziness or an absolute disdain for the country you live in. Neither party is close to perfect, but the challenge is that you work towards that as best you can, knowing that people are fallible, knowing that there will be disappointment, knowing that it may take lifetimes for the results you want to materialize. The best avenue for that in our current world is the party system because you're not going to change the structure of politics in this country unless you change the parties. And frankly, I'd rather work and hang out with Dems because when it all is taken to account, they are currently the closest to my view of what i want the country to look like (and they look like the country).

 

Much respect, Landlord Landry.

To Lynus:

Your great great grandfather's papers, proving his "legal" immigration, would probably be sort of insulting to a Native American.

 

In a discussion about legal vs illegal immigration, this has what to do with what?

And it was my great-grandfather. In 1910. He was born in Wales to a Welsh mother and an English father and married my Scottish great-grandmother, who was born in Oklahoma when it was still Indian Territory.

 

I stand corrected then.