How many believe that at least 50% of Tea Partiers harbor racist views?

But if our national security is the concern, terrorism is the biggest threat. The terrorists are neither Canadian or Mexican, so they can pick whatever border is easiest.

So why aren't tea partiers up in arms about pulling a wall on the northern border?

 

Yes, but I trust the Canadian officials more than the Mexican officials to catch things on their end.

And I don't know re: your question. You'd have to ask a Tea Partier.

 

finalsbound, you might consider a divorce from your parents.

If you ever need sanctuary, I serve as my kids' personal man-servant, own thousands of illuminating books, and allow free intellectual rein.

You deserve a break.

And Reagan? Here's what I think of Ray-gun...
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Deck and FB...seriously, thank you for the advice. sometimes I feel like I'm the crazy one...my sis and I always say, "sometimes it's just good to know you're not nuts..." The oppression of the mind is a sad, bleak thing...this board has been safe haven of creativity and intellectual thought over the years...yes, even in the D&D!

the divorce complicated things...I was living at home on-and-off. I realize how much I like my parents better when I only see them 1-2 times a month. Luckily I am moving into my new apartment today, so I won't have to deal with the crazy for awhile.

Rashmon- You sound like a pretty rad dad. I might come a-knockin' at your door someday, so look out.

Phillyrocket- Thanks for a concise argument against the claim of Reagan's infallibility...if these people could be swayed by logic, I would totally have a debate with them; unfortunately anything I try to say regarding The Gipper is met with condescending remarks about how I was only alive for 2 years of his presidency, so nothing I say is possibly factually correct. Whatever, they can go to the grave thinking Reagan was God's right hand man.

 

Your an idiot...

 

60%+ see the Tea Party as at least partially racist -- telling.

 

thank you for contributing to the discussion in a meaningful way.

 

if "you're" going to call someone an idiot

anyway usual suspects in this thread trying to cover the racism were in the shirley sherrod thread, saying "look at those naacp shaking their heads"

unbelievable, well not really

anyway, the fact that these guys only woke up to gov't spending after the cut tax start two wars president gives the a credibility gap

 

For very similar reasons, I only have had cursory contact with my Dad for the last 15 years. He's probably more of a jerk like Hank Hill's dad, but there's lots of psuedo-religious whackedness about him. I used to put up with it and was tortured quite a bit in my younger days, but then I had kids and as I thought about it, I became much less forgiving. What I could tolerate in short doses I did not want my kids exposed to in any amount.

Since I'm also probably old enough to be your dad, just know that's parental separation or little contact is not necessarily a bad thing and can be quite liberating. It sucks, but life doesn't deal a fair hand to everybody and sometimes, that is the best option. If it's inevitable, seize the initiative and do it yourself. Calmly, cooly, assuredly. You have the power that way and it allows you to deal with consequences with greater clarity than if they are the ones that cut you off.

One of the good things is that I think I'm doing a decent dad job with my kids, and it really started with my childhood. Whenever an issue comes up, I'll ask myself what would my dad do/say and that's my starting point: never do or say what he would. The corollary to that is the opposite of what he would do or say is usually the right choice.

Anyway FB, you're not alone. People of your generation, my generation, and generations before have faced these same problems. I think the trick is to stop it and do your best to see it's not carried forward through to the next generation. I suspect you're strong enough to get there. Good luck.

 

Since you state terrorism is your concern for border security consider in recent years there have been a few instances of foreign (not native to either Canada or Mexico) terrorists coming through Canada and to my knowledge none coming from the Southern border.

Its not ridiculous at all given the parameters you set. You cited safety and as such traffic accidents are a far greater cause than illegal immigrants. If you don't think so I would like to see the evidence that supports that view. If we are looking for draconian enforcement of laws for our safety by sheer numbers it makes more sense to enforce traffic laws than it does immigration.

As far as your great-grandfather coming here legally that is good for him. My parents did too. That said that is not relevant to the issue of what is a greater threat to safety, immigrants or traffic accidents. Even in your great grandfather's time traffic accidents were a greater cause of death than immigrants.

This is a bit of a tangent but I wouldn't be so quick to say that your great grandfather came here completely legally. Things in Ellis Island (and other immigration entry points at that time) weren't efficiently or cleanly run. Lots of mistakes occurred and corruption was unheard of. Very frequently names and nationalities were incorrectly listed or people just flat out lied. There is no way to know how many people came through completely according to law but likely there is a very high percentage that came through who didn't.

And as I noted above the attempts we have seen have come through the Northern Border. Also as noted traffic accidents cause far more death than terrorism. According to NHTSA in 2008 34,017 people died in the US from traffic accidents. That is about a 9/11 happening every month. Not to make light of terrorism but according to your standard of safety traffic accidents are the greater and more immediate threat than illegal immigrants even the possibility of terrorists among those illegals.

That said as I stated earlier I am not downplaying the threat of terrorism in regard to border security. As I stated I think a draconian attempt to close our borders actually makes it more likely that those we wish to harm us will come through. The reasoning being that there is a market demand for immigrant labor and a willing supply. That given the black market will step in to fill it, as we see with coyotes. I think a reasonable system, guest workers, path to citizenship and etc.., would make it easier for us to keep track of who is coming into our country and reduce the impetus for the underworld to do so.

If you understand that then you should understand the reasoning I outlined above why just trying to shut down the border and crack down on immigration, illegal and legal, has the opposite affect of improving our safety.

And would you support withdrawl then of National Guard forces currently deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan to do so? Also would you support transferring other resources currently being used overseas to patrol our border?

That contradicts what you said earlier in regard to if it was Ireland bordering us on the South. Under what you stated race shouldn't matter yet you are justifying someone using race as a factor in profiling. If cracking down illegal immigration isn't about race then why the emphasis on "hispanic"?

FYI there are many Chinese and other Asian illegal immigrants. About 15 years ago a ship ran aground off of Long Island that was full of Chinese illegals and Chinese illegals have been occasionally found being smuggled in cargo containers at places like Long Beach. There are also many illegal immigrants from Eastern Europe. This is another problem with racial profiling since if you are concerned about illegal immigration no matter where its from concentrating on hispanics and the southern border reduces the focus on fighting illegal immigration overall to onto those on Hispanics. It also makes this much more of a racial issue than need be but again I believe there are many who view this issue through racist lens.

It depends and not knowing what your training was specifically I can't say for sure. If your training was to treat Asians and whites with more reserve and blacks and hispanics with less I would say that is racist. As an Asian I don't believe we are anymore reserved in griefs than other races. Just look at some of the coverage of parents wailing for their children who died in the Sichuan Earthquake.

 

Finals, I can sympathize with how you are feeling as I have lots of ideological and cultural differences with my Dad. I don't think my Dad ever got a handle on what it meant to raise an American son in what to him was a strange land and at the same time I never really got a handle on how my dad was trying to raise me. No matter what though he is still my dad. He might not be the friend who I have a few beers with and shoot the breeze but he is my dad.

You might never agree with your dad and as an adult you have the right to live your own life and have your own beliefs but at the same time don't forget this is the man who raised you and even though you find his views incompatible with your own he still thought he was trying to do the best for you.

 

We should acknowledge though that some of the Tea Party is trying address racism in their ranks. Consider how the Tea Party Federation kicked out Williams for his racist rhetoric.

 

Terrorism was an example of a concern. Another example would be violence potentially spilling over from drug cartels.

It's plenty ridiculous. Apples to oranges. The only parallel is that yes, traffic laws need to be enforced as do immigration laws.

Nothing really to say here except that the majority of drivers in the US are US citizens and/or here legally, so….there's that.

Whelp….we have all of his paperwork: birth certificates, immigration papers, etc. And his brothers stayed in Wales, and we still know that side of the family and I've been over there several times and seen the family records that they have as well, so yeah: his was legit.

Lots of people die from guns. Maybe we should ban those, too. Or just ban cars because of all those darned traffic accidents.

And I say you can't fix the faucet without turning off the water first. I don't think a wall is the answer. More eyes on the ground would be far more effective. You're a lot more likely to get your house robbed if you leave the door open vs. having a good lock and a security system and whatever other analogy you might like.

I don't know the exact numbers, but we have plenty of troops stationed Stateside, so pulling them out wouldn't be necessary and isn't relevant here.

It doesn't contradict anything. If Ireland were on our southern border, then yes: look for white people with Irish accents. But Ireland isn't on our southern border. Mexico is. Last I checked, an awful lot of Mexicans live in Mexico. Of course we have to be mindful and wary of all people, regardless of race, particularly with regard to human trafficking, which knows no racial boundary. But this doesn't change the fact that Mexico is comprised primarily of Mexicans, does it?

I'm aware. I gave a huge presentation in nursing school about human trafficking. The numbers are shocking.

I have a BS in nursing. And the focus wasn't on treating one group of people differently than another, but what to expect when caring for patients of different ethnic and cultural backgrounds. Not that you said so, but there's nothing inherently racist about recognizing characteristics of particular ethnicities. From a sociological point of view, it's actually rather fascinating.

Come work a shift in the ER and you'll see.

 

The traffic accident comparison is completely ridiculous. You can't honestly think you're making a good point...

 

lol. I love this post.

I thought about starting (yet another) thread about this issue. But I'd probably just be perceived as an attention w****, so I'll just post it here, although it's a massive derail.

yea, I've been pretty absent from the board. Took a 'sabatical' for a few months and your post reflects my reasons. Awhile ago, I picked up a book titled 'Jesus, Interrupted' by Bart Ehrman and well, I'll just keep it short....

I'm completely agnostic now. I kinda agree with your parents as I hate all forms of religion. I didn't come to this conclusion based off one book, it was a long process that involved many reads. But christianity is such a fawking hoax. I've seriously reconsidered every belief I've held, even my political stances on issues such as gay marriage. The only thing that hasn't changed is my view on abortion, mostly because my position on abortion had little to do with religion.

anyway, yea, just to give you a thumbs up. reading is dangerous for christians, because the truth sucks. believe me, my faith went down kicking and screaming, but I have to be honest with myself. Christianity is a gigantic brainwash.

-fin.

 

I think considering all the debates you've had with people on this board, it takes some kind of courage or at least self security to say that.

I repped you, and gained more respect for you.

 

You're not alone with this belief.