How many believe that at least 50% of Tea Partiers harbor racist views?

no one believes me!!!! I wish I could record what they say, because it is absolutely mind-boggling. When my dad found out I voted for Obama last year, he said to me (and I quote), "Just burn your Bible now, that's how much respect you've shown to God." It's so hard to not be bitter when someone is constantly in your ear saying rude **** like that. My sister, while very progressive, voted for McCain JUST because she was scared out of her mind there was some way my dad would be able to find out how we voted. He's no joke...a militant fundamentalist if there ever was one.

 

Maybe you can set up a meeting with the pastor of the church to see if that is what they are being preached and taught. If not, you and the pastor should confront your parents. If yes, then .

 

It's no use. You can construe the Bible to say whatever you want it to say. My dad would say that the pastor is "just being politically correct because he has to" and that he really does believe Jesus was a gun-toting, hardcore conservative capitalist fighter. Which I don't remember reading about in the Bible, but you would be amazed how much they can twist words and meanings and contexts around to have it say exactly what they want.

"You can safely assume you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do."
— Anne Lamott

 

I think there is a fine line and we entered uncharted territory when we elected our first black president.

It is a grand American tradition to mock and ridicule our Presidents based on things like background and appearance but how do you do it when the most defining feature of our President is that he is a black man? That is why I hesitate to say that most Tea Partiers are racist but I think they occasionally use racially tinged rhetoric and imagery reflexively and thoughtlessly because its the easiest route to mock the President. For instance the easiest way to mock Bill Clinton's appearance was as a fat guy, the easiest route to mock GW Bush's background was a spoiled rich frat boy. With Obama though there is no easy way to do so without almost automatically falling into racial stereotypes. For instance calling the Fresh Prince of Bill Ayers, is that because Will Smith is black and that works with a play on "Bellaire"? Did anyone ever think of mocking GW Bush as The Fresh Prince of Bush Heirs?

Again though it is a fine line and the rhetoric does often veer into keeping the "spics" out.

 

As MadMax would say, God is bigger than any political party.

 

That stuff is crazy. I can't imagine being in a situation like that with your family. Obviously because they are your family there are ties and bonds there, but also you've got the sense to realize they aren't rational when it comes to politics and religion. In a way it's like you are the parent and they are the kids. That's not a good situation for anyone to be in, but especially when they get so emotional about it, and lay the guilt on.

Obviously you aren't forming your beliefs to hurt them or anyone else.

Just take comfort in the fact that you can reason, and use your quest for knowledge to keep learning. Nothing is going to make dealing with family easy, but you should at least always take solace in the fact you have a desire for knowledge, and an open mind, and that's nothing you have to apologize to anyone for.

Maybe counseling can help with family issues. It seems like sometimes that's the only way.

 

no, unfortunately I actually DO understand how/why that mentality exists. At least they haven't been pushed to a corner where they would act on it. If there are more and more people like that, I wonder when the breaking point will be.

 

But you're making something out of nothing; a leap of assumption. It's like saying "Oh you just hate black people" to a person who merely expressed concern about inner-city crime; they are not one in the same.

Allowing that someone somewhere surely has said something like what you posted at one point or another, I've never heard anyone espouse anything about "spics" in this debate. And the apparent assumption that this is most peoples' 'hidden agenda' on this issue is just bigoted, stereotypical fear mongering in and of itself. Somehow protecting our borders has become "be afraid of whitey."

"WTF" is the only real response I have to this.

Everyone wants to jump on the racist boogieman whether he's there or not. And if he's not, they'll create him.

Our porous border is a hazard to OUR security. Illegal is illegal. That's really all there is to it.

 

FWIW, I don't think the Tea Party has shown any fear of expressing their opinions...

 

Wow. I'm damn near speechless, and it takes a lot for me to approach being speechless. Please tell that you don't live with your parents. You don't, do you? That was simply an amazing post. I've run into people similar to your parents many times over the years, but the concentrated bile and vicious hatred clearly emanating from them, shown so clearly in your post, simply freaks me out. Now your comment about wishing you had a father like me a day or two ago, which I made a joke of, is perfectly understandable. I've no doubt that I'm old enough to be your father. Since I said that, let me give you some fatherly advice. Spend as much time away from your parents as you reasonably can. If you don't, they may very well drive you to destruction.

(I can't believe I just posted that, but I really believe it!)

 

Wow Finals, your story is ridiculous. I hope, for your sake, that there is at least a little exaggeration in there somewhere.

I've known more than my share of Jesus-crazies in my day. For the most part, there's just no reasoning with them.

 

I didn't say such sentiments are said all the time but blatantly racist attitudes have been expressed before.

Just in this thread alone we heard this:
"One minute he'll be telling Carlos down at Los Cucos about how he knows and loves Mexican culture so well, and then later that evening I'll listen to him and my mother have a 3-hour-long conversation about how much they hate Mexican people and they can't stand Spanish and the illegals are sucking our country dry and the hispanic race is expanding too fast. drives me nuts."

Unless you are doubting Finalsbound's veracity that sounds pretty racist to me.

Sure it presents some hazard but statistics don't show it to be the hazard that warrants such alarmist rhetoric.

And as far as illegal is illegal I have mentioned this before in regard to other laws. Have you ever jay walked or have you ever sped? Would you support draconian enforcement of those laws since jay walking and speeding is a hazard to OUR safety. I would say it is more of a likely hazard than illegal immigrants and on top of that one that states are free to enforce without Constitutional restraint.

 

I don’t doubt her story. But one person’s story about her family doesn’t define an entire group or movement. And the overwhelming sentiment seems to be that border security = racism.

I also said racism exists in everything, but that everything isn’t racist. My intended point is that *I* haven’t seen it in relation to the discussions I’ve had with family, friends, co-workers, and that it’s entirely plausible that the majority of people who think that, for example, our borders need to be better secured, are not a bunch of racist ninnies. They just want the border secure, whether to inhibit terrorism, human trafficking, and/or drugs and drug cartels and it wouldn’t matter if our southern border was with Ireland or if all Mexicans suddenly turned into white people. They really, truly, just want the damn border secure.

And the whole debate over national security gets pushed aside and swept under the rug of racism.

I empathize with the poor guy who just wants to make a better life for himself and his family. Were I in his situation, I’d probably do the same thing. And at the same time I don’t know as I could possibly be so irrational as to not recognize that the inhabitants of the country I’m sneaking into just might not like it so much.

Are you really comparing jaywalking and speeding with border security? Seriously?

 

I don't think he is - but I think he's say if your claim is "Illegal is illegal. That's really all there is to it" then they would be comparable. If there's no gray area to laws and how they are enforced, then we should enforce jaywalking more aggressively. If we don't, we are implicitly saying some laws are more important than others - so then you can't just say "illegal is illegal". You have to show why illegal immigration should be enforced as a higher priority over other laws.

 

True it doesn't and I don't believe that all or the most of those who are very concerned about illegal immigration are racists. I do believe there is a significant amount of people in regard to that issue who are and I think a perusal of political comment boards and other venues will show racist comments frequently cropping up.

I applaud you for associating with people who feel as such that said as I said a perusal of almost any discussion on this topic will turn up racist rhetoric. Such as here on CF.net D&D on a thread currently on the first page a poster wrote:

Now note that the poster listed "hispanic" as the first trait to look for, he didn't list Irish or white. Keep in mind too this was a post arguing that there wasn't racism involved.

Sure we can have a debate on national security. I and others have argued that trying to wall off our Southern border actually exacerbates problems with national security because the market drives immigration and like drug prohibition when you try to artificially wall off market forces you drive the underworld to meet those demands. In this case through coyotes. I would argue that the more we try to close off the border the less control we have as the criminal element steps in to fill the demand for immigration. Whereas sensible immigration reform that acknowledges a large movement of people accross the border would bring such immigration out of the shadows to where it is easier to monitor who is coming in.

At the same time I have brought this up repeatedly but have not heard an answer. It will be very expensive to try to crack down illegal immigration and tighten the border. In an era of record budget deficits while we are fighting two wars overseas how much is it going to cost us to crack down on illegal immigration and secure the border? Would you support cutting back funding of our overseas missions to provide more resources to securing our border?

If the inhabitants of this country are going to provide him with jobs why would you say the inhabitants aren't going to like it so much? If there was a such a widespread hatred and fear of illegal immigrants we don't need new laws to get rid of them just vote with your dollars and don't hire any illegals to do any work that you might have and don't patronize any busineses that do.

Yes. You talk about a threat to you safety and on average you are much more likely to die from a traffic accident caused by things like speeding and jaywalking than you are from an illegal immigrant.

 

To this, I would just say the northern border has more security holes than the south, but you don't see people yelling and screaming about securing our border with Canada. If the concern is terrorism, that's probably a much easier border to cross.

 

As I said above yes I am. As you note, illegal is illegal, then every law should be enforced as draconianly as possible. At the sametime though he specifically mentioned a threat to our collective safety. Traffic accidents kill way way way way more American citizens and legal residents than illegal immigrants do.

Great point about the Northern border too but just FYI security has also been tightened on the Northern border too in recent years.

 

Lol, I love the Reagan supporters. He cut our taxes, blah, blah, he cut the rates and raised FICA and reconfigured the AMT to hit the middle class all while spending more money than every President before him combined and raisng the deficit and debt/GDP to godawful levels. Easily one of the top 5 worst presidents of all time. He tried to repeal the Glass-Steagall Act, which even the GOP agrees was one of the main causes of this economic crisis, long before the trio of Gramm, Leach, and Bliley succesfully rammed it through. His fingerprints are all over the Savings and Loan Crisis and that taxpayer bailout.

BTW he switched to a Republican, because as an actor he didn't like the amount of taxes he was paying. The only reason he and his family survived the Great Depression was because of FDR's programs.

Check for yourself:

http://www.amazon.com/Man-Who-Sold-...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1280620825&sr=8-1

I completely agree with the rest of your frustrations. My parents HATED Reagan and both Bushes, but now that there is a black man in the White House, they have gone Republican. Growing up all I heard was "you better not bring home a colored girl." Sadly enough my parents were some of the more tolerant people I knew. Others around, like neighbors for example were not nearly as discrete about their attitudes towards "people of color."

 

And to this I would say that Mexico is a corrupt, damn-near 3rd world country that has a huge problem with drug cartels, particularly in the areas along the US border.

Call me when Canada has this problem.

I understand the point you're trying to make, but I think it's a ridiculous comparison. There are legal paths to citizenship. My great-grandfather did it. There's no reason why others shouldn't be expected to do the same thing.

And the "threat" was with regard to terrorism, not some guy coming in to cut grass or work on a farm or wherever in an effort to better his or his family's life.

And yes, our "war" on drugs is a big part of the problem that no one in power wants to touch. Legalization and regulation would go a long way toward fixing the border problem. Ideally, I'd like to see full legalization and regulation of all drugs. This would allow us to not make Mexico fight our drug war for us so that it could better focus on itself and its own problems. This is what I wish would happen, but it's just....not going to.

I'd be a lot more in favor of having the National Guard on the border to aid the Border Patrol agents. Walls just get dug under and climbed over.

As far as this goes:

Profiling is a whole other argument and I haven't read the thread you're talking about so I'm probably missing something, but who are they supposed to look for? Chinese people? Why in the world would they look for white people/Irish people? Because whomever it was said "hispanic" in a thread about illegal immigration and border states that person is a racist? This means the guy you quoted doesn't like hispanic people because they are hispanic? Race is certainly involved, but racism?

In nursing school we covered a lot of cultural sensitivity stuff, including:
-blacks and hispanics tend to be very dramatic in their expressions of pain and grief, whereas whites and asians are more reserved.

There's some profiling right there, no? Is nursing school racist, too?