Battier's shooting has been poor this season. However, people don't realize what he does besides shoot.... He is still probably the best defensive SF in the league. He's a great leader, and could easily be the voice of this team If he chooses too. He's extremely underrated at passing, especially the entry pass to Yao as well. He's a great finisher when you feed him the ball. Shane is just unable to create his own shot. However, If Kyle Lowry was on the starting lineup, I'm sure Battier would get more open looks. Since Lowry attacks the rim every single time he has the ball and it's going to force the defense to help out. This was one thing T-Mac was always good at, driving and dishing it out. Battier would get a lot of open 3's that way. Lowry is our new facilitator, and is our best one.
The thing that concerns me most is that at points I see Battier not even making an effort for some loose balls and rebounds. He'll stand flat footed and let a defender grab a loose ball he could have challenged for. We've all seen his declined aggressiveness in his shooting, often passing the ball when he has an open 3. But I've seen that lack of aggressiveness spread to other parts of his game. He's still a heady player and one of our better defenders, but I don't see him hustling like he used to. I also don't see him drawing as many charges as he used to either.
Regarding things that you don't see in box scores: Battier does...: 1. ...NOT make rotational mistakes on offense or defense. AB does. Wafer does. Artest does. Scola does. Landry does. Battier doesn't. He doesn't cost the team points because of a broken play. 2. ...force the other team to respect his outside shot giving Yao more room to operate in the post. 3. ...guard the opponents toughest guy without the worry of sacrificing offense ...because Battier doesn't provide much offense anyway. Conversely, if Artest had to guard Kobe, Ron's offense would suffer ...not true w/ Battier. 4. ...make a great help defender covering weakside rotations, collecting charges on other people's assignments and recently even getting a few blocked shots. ie... Battier makes other people look better on defense. 5. ...does not EVER demand the ball meaning chemistry will never be a problem about not getting enough shots. If anything, he doesn't take enough shots. My take on Battier is that he is a guy, at a minimum, that will NEVER hurt you. On offense and defense, he is ALWAYS in the right spot. The only time Battier hurts you is when other guys can't get their shots going. If other guys can reliably score, Battier is perfect. But if the other guys stop scoring, Battier's lack of offense sticks out like a soar thumb. Basically, if we are scoring ...Battier makes everybody else look even better. But if the other guys can't hit their shots ...it somehow makes Battier look really bad. What a weird player.
Everyone wishes Shane scored more. But of the list you provided, do you think any of those players has anywhere near the impact defensively that Shane does? He is on the court for his ability to make the team better defensively and his ability to space the floor, even though his shots are not falling right now. As for you playoff stat, give me the same numbers for Yao and Artest. I know Yao has no series wins and Artest has maybe one.
Wow what a monumental waste of time, I mean a ppg analysis, seriously? You clearly fail in basketball 101. This is bad even for kwame.
I have no quibble/beef with you or anyone on the board, but isn't this rookie/non-rookie thing just a little.....dweeb-ish? Not that I'd want to be "demoted" where I couldn't post a new thread or respond to a thread or whatever, but the man has a right to his opinion. And it's a good thing Battier does a lot of the small things well, because he's turning into Chuck Hayes, albeit one who gets his 4.12 points a game from the 3 point line and the foul line. All of this might be moot. Morey seems to want to keep Shane around to run for mayor of Houston one day.
battier is the new chuck hayes. and as we learn, they're good in stretches, but don't play them too much. just play them when we need defensive stops on a guy who's hot. the problem is, we play battier too much.
Since Battier joined the team, the Rockets: (1) replaced Howard, Hayes and Mutombo with Scola and Lantry, (2) replaced Alston with Brooks and Lowry, (3) replaced Luther Head with Von Wafer, and (4) added Ron Artest. Each move is adds scoring punch into the lineup, particularly guys who can better create their own shots than their predecessor. Which means the Rockets have done a good job building the team around Shane Battier.
+/- for one game doesn't mean too much, but over a season +/- tells a lot . Battier's +/- over several seasons tells more. Scola does a lot things, we saw him making shots, but he is also a below average defender, missing rotations quite often, can't guard tathletic PFs with range etc. That's one of the reason his +/- looks worse than we thing it should be. Marbury used to have very pretty stats on offense, yet he gave everything back on the other end. Same thing can be said about Amare, AI，etc. Play offense only makes them overrated by media and fans. Battier goes the opposite direction. He impacts the game not by offense, but by defense and doing little things. It won't be noticed by media and most of the fans, but it will be recognized by +/- over a long period.
Well my friend, that depends on how serious the rox are about winning. This summer should be the year of highway robbery. Battier makes 7m so that means he can brings back a 8.5m player. I'm looking for teams that are looking to get rid of a bigger salary or so they can get into the sweepstakes. We can compose a list of some kind and we'll bring up debates of such also. Like I mentioned in another thread, how would a Shane for Turiaf and Azuibuke package sound? A 6'5 slashing young wing and a young 4/5 backup big. They're salaries are equal to shane. Those are the kind of deals you can look at. Plus it will insulate the rockets from having to overextend Scolas deal because they have landry and Turiaf. Also, look at a team like the bucks with jefferson. Skiles would probably like a defensive minded guy like shane even though jefferson is a good defender also. The rox would have to give up more than Battier to get jefferson, but if they resign Charlie and Redd comes back, they may feel they have enough scores and need a guy like battier. A guy like nocioni and salmons are guys that you could get fo shane probably. I doubt portland will put outlaw back on the table since webster is unknown off injury. The rockets are going to be stuck in middle of reshaping or reloading.
bwahaha. Nice. There has been one other guy that might be worth mentioning in the conversation about building around the team. I don't remember his name but I think he is taller than Shane.
Kwame, I have learned more basketball from all the rebuttals to your thread than from any other source. We really have intelligent people here. Please keep making threads like this so I could continue to learn more and at the same time improving my English. Thanks guys. You are the best.
Morey uses much more sophisticated statistical analysis than stuff you see on a box score. Other than +/-, Morey thinks box score stats are a joke. You have to look at his impact on other players and his impact on the other team's overall efficiency. That requires some complex algorithms and processing power, which Les pays for and Morey uses.
"The average fan focuses on the guy with the ball, and the scorer tends to have the ball in his hands more often than his teammates. Additionally he is able to create the shot by his own ability, independent of his teammates. It's easy for the fan to see the benefit of the scorer's efforts, since it connects directly to the main goal of the team: points. Rebounds don't change the point totals on the scoreboard. When the news covers the game, usually you hear something like 'Robinson led the Knicks with 29 points, while Duhon and Hughes chipped in 19 each.' You don't hear about the other stats unless it's a phenomenal number (20 rebounds). And the players listed are in point order, even if they score 19 points on 20 shots. What strengthens the bond between the fan and the scorer is that sometimes the scorer performs in an amazing manner. Watch any NBA game and you're likely to see a few spectacular shots, most by the high scorer. Hence it's easy for the average fan to relate to the leading scorer. But that doesn't necessarily mean that it's the most important event on the court. Other things lead to a team's victory, including defense, rebounding, turnovers, and free throws. But most of these aren't as sexy as the made basket. When was the last time you saw a spectacular rebound? Has there even been a spectacular free throw? A turnover can excite the crowd, but unless it's followed by a score the buzz is lost." Also, don't get hung up on the idea that it might be something else from the box score that is more important than scoring. The components of good defense, for instance, don't have names most fans use." http://www.knickerblogger.net/?p=1569 Does this mean Kwame is an average fan??
I can't say I've watched Azubuike extensively, but from the little I've seen I like him as a player. I like Turiaf as well, though he's perhaps a bit overpriced. I actually wouldn't mind a deal like that, if that's the direction the Rockets went, but it takes two to tango. I can't think of a wing player less suited to playing for Don Nelson than Shane Battier, so it's hard for me to imagine Golden State making that deal. I've heard mention of this before, but I don't remember seeing the source. When were the Blazers offering Outlaw for Battier? All the other players you mention I like (Nocioni was traded, though), but whether the deals make sense depends on what they're asking for. I mean, if the Bulls are offering Salmons and Tyrus Thomas for Battier and Landry, that would be great. I don't see us getting those type of offers, but it doesn't hurt to ask.
If you want to keep yao, you need battier He (and scola to a degree) does all the things that Yao lacks. In turn Yao gets a lot of defensive pressure which allows Shane to get open looks
In all honesty my friend, the rox are in a bad spot after this year. I think they're in between places which is not a good spot. They're best players are 30 and older which really puts the squeeze on. The owner, like aot of owners are waiting on 2010 which is a mistake. The Rox can be a player in 2010 as well as improve the team this summer, but i cant lie and tell you they will do it. I think the only bigtime 2010 free agent they'll have a shot at is Bosh. Thats because his team isnt good and he's in canada paying triple taxes. on the other hand, a team like Miami will have cap space and he and wade are the same age. That same summer, i think the cavs will also have capspace and have some deep playoff runs with Lebron. So that being said, i think the rockets need to aquire players with youth and upside going forward because Yao's arrow is even, slightly heading down. The players you aquire need to be good now, but has the ceiling to get better. Thats why i think Battier will either be a bench player or not on the roster at all.
