You really are out of your mind with this post. You see everything in black and white, you don't take into account any grey areas or anything that may change over time , like playing styles, league talent, team talent, the value of a pick (not just from year to year but from team to team). Please stop mentioning maxwell, as good as he was he flaked out in 95 because he couldnt keep his mind in the game. Event the rockets strength coach at the time said Max was the best athlete he'd seen up to that point, but he never quite got it all together, tried his best, etc.. Elie would never have a chance with the taller shooting guards and small forwards of today, especially kobe and lebron. He'd be limited to guarding smaller SG/SF and he probably never got put against a point guard during crutch time. Where Shane was on Chauncey, not once, but twice int he final seconds. Ray allen? Why dont we throw in Pau gasol, lakers got crazy trade value right there too Allen doesn't fit the mold of a role player/defensive specialist like the rest, which the discussion is about. You just threw him in there because he's also a swingman Boston got a great deal for him. If you're going to start comparing shane to all-stars then you truly do just hate the guy. Tony allen is NOWHERE NEAR to Battier as a defender. Cassell never was that great of a defender, he got his steals playing the passing lane, overall solid defensively, but again he doesn't fit the mold of Bowen/shane/posey, which is what this discussion is about. Don't reply with "i'm just trying to show how a role player like cassell could be acquired for less than a lotter pick" because cassell was the exception, not the norm, he turned out better than most at that position in the draft so it doesn't prove that you can get valuable role players consistently late in the first round. that's like saying 18ppg players can always be found in the second roundjust because of cuttino mobley. Makes no sense at all. Horry was drafted at #11. guys drafted before him included Todd Day and Adam Keefe. right after him were Miner, Bryan Stith, Malik Sealy, and anthony peeler. Horry's career wouldnt have turned out anymore better than most of those guys had he not always been on the teams that fit him perfectly. The fact that does guys were in the lottery tells you how poor the draft use to be after the first 10 picks or so, especially that year, so Houston didn't pick a gem, they just picked the guy that fit their system/team the best (didn't houston do this later also? you know picking the guy who fits the best, oh yeah they did it WHEN THEY TRADED GAY FOR BATTIER, the difference being Dream and drexler didn't break down during the season).
One more thing. Cassell was obviously an exception because he turned out to be an all-star which is definitely not common late in the first round. but look at the rest: Maxwell: Was practically given to houston, but obviously his attitude was the problem and why he didn't stick around with teams, eventually didnt stick with houston either, sohe was damaged goods and damaged goods are always undervalued. Elie: He never had as much success elsewhere as he did with Houston, why? Because houston was a great fit, it had little to do with elie being this great role player. Horry: The only one out of these 3 that was able to stick around a significant amount of time with teams and play just as well for other teams as he did with Houston. Sounds like shane right? And how much did each guys cost Houston? A LOTTERY PICK. Amazing what you can find when you look into those gray areas...
I'm not a big fan of Battier either. When we traded Rafer, the first thing I said was, "ok now it's time for battier to go and we're good" his lack of offense plays a huge role in our crappy offensive flow. his defensive skills and hustle are nice... but very overrated if you ask me. not saying they're bad... just not as good as people make it seem to be. They just use his defense to cover his terrible offensive game
The arguements for Battier are dwindled to nothingness when you see how badly his position is outplayed night after night. Yes he hit a huge three the other day, and a nice defensive play, but those things do not equate into success when you man is quadrupling your offensive output. I realize its Kobe tonight, but its a prime example. At halftime Battiers line read. 0 FG's made 0 Three pointers made 0 rebounds. 0 assists 0 blocks 0 steals. I may be wrong as I just looked quickly but Im pretty sure that is what it was. Now, you can claim all you want intangibles, but a few hustle plays, and intangibles just don't make up for numbers. It doesn't matter that the Rockets lead at the half, how much more of a lead could of it been? He is a starter getting 33 mins a game, on a good team.
Absolutely nothing from Battier tonight. This was a horrible game from Battier and typical of his overall play this season. Almost 30 mpg and 4 points on 1-5 shooting (his one fg came uncontested). On top of that, he made poor entry passes to Yao. His man (Kobe) did not even acknowledge Battier's presence on the defensive end. It was Kobe who was leaving Battier every chance he got to harrass Yao. Also, Rockets built there biggest lead and played there best with Battier on the bench. The lead was relinquished with Battier in the game. RV6, you really have no idea what you're talking about. Stop mentioning Maxwell?...lol. He played way better D than Battier ever has just ask MJ and hit as many clutch shots as Dream. He also transformed Houston from choke city to clutch city. Elie never had success anywhere else? Lol, you're killing me. He went to San Antoino and won a championship with them playing a similar role to what he played in Houston. All the other current players I mentioned play the same role and function that Battier does with the Rockets and do it just as well if not better. If you would take your Battier blinders off then you will see that he's just an average to below average role player and teams acquire these types of guys in minor moves and through free agency. With the way you're talking, Shane Battier might be the best role player ever...lol. I'm glad we know better.
a few hustles plays and intangibles? ReadJVg's quote. The point is shane is doing the little stuff all game long, that's why he's seen as more valueable than the stats show. And yes, it's kobe tonight, but look at Ron artest tonight. He's considered a great defender and i think for the most part he played kobe tough, but he made one foolish mistake and one key error throughout the game. The foolish mistake was diving after a ball he had no chance at, which left Kobe open for a 3 that pushed the lead. The key is he had no chance at the ball, he even dove for the ball after kobe almost had it. That's a little thing right there that shane wouldnt have done. Some fans would see it as Ron being aggressive and a good defender, but it was a mistake period. The key error he made throughout the game was not getting a hand up on kobe. He doesnt have to block his view like shane does, but just get a hand up. Sometimes he'd put a hand up (and didnt even jump) and sometimes he didnt even put a hand up, he just looked up as kobe shot the ball. Now i still can't completely say Ron played horrible defense because he played Kobe tough, but its those littles things he didnt do, which shane would have done, that fans dont see. Tomorrow when they go over the game tape, especially to see what they could have done better against kobe, they'll pauses it, watch the slow motion replay, makes notes, etc. and realize these little things ron wasnt doing and probably think to themselves shane always puts a hand up. That's why coaches rave about him, it's not just me or these other pro-Battier fans who analyze everything to the smallest detail, coaches do it too and probably to a greater extent.
Did Battier forget how to dribble. It seems as like as soon as someone gets up on him, he pulls a Yao.
Please stop embarrassing yourself. There were lots of other nonsense in your posts but this stood out like a sore thumb on Salma Hayek boobs.
Battier had a bad game tonight ... it's hard to dispute that. His job is to play all-around great defense, get Yao the ball, and hit his threes. He didn't do any of it like we need him to.
Even after a performance like this you still won't admit that Shane was awful tonight. Wow! Even DaDakota admitted he was absolutely garbage. Take the Battier blinders off! I guess I shouldn't expect anything less from a self-proclaimed Battier lover. I do know one thing though, I'm done responding to you.
I guess we'll blame the loss on Battier tonight huh. Nevermind that Wafer was passing to Casper the ghost most of the night, or that Gasol outmuscled Yao the whole night. The lakers even extended their lead and pulled away when shane wasn't in there incase you didn't notice. If you want to say shane contributed to the loss, well obviously he did, but there was plenty of blame to go around tonight and bigger problems to address. Shane is one guy, who takes few shots, doesnt turn the ball over. What was the main problem tonight? turnovers. As many clutch shots as Dream??? Are you serious? I should start a new thread just to let everyone know you said that. I'm not even going to read the rest of you post after that. Ridiculous, and it doesnt even have anything to do with Battier.
don't worry. wafer got the same # of minutes as battier tonight. hopefully adelman is learning quick about how teams play battier.
This is all I'm asking for, because we really have no other options at this point in the season. Long term, there are other things we can do. If Adelman had left Battier in there for upwards of 30 mpg, this contest would not have even been close. How low can Battier go?
did i say he WASNT? Seriously, quit assuming and making stuff up to feed your argument, i was obviously talking about how shane plays in general and it wasnt directed at tonight's game except for me saying what he would have done differently than Ron. At no time did I praise his actual play tonight, in fact, i didnt even comment on it. You're ridiculous.
I agree. He needs to be less selfish. I think with hard work and dedication, and through learning from his mistakes on both ends of the court he can become a good all-around player.
