Lowry already is in the same situation, Derozan dominates the ball as much as Harden, he just misses a whole lot more (they both take about 20 shots/free throws per game, Harden averages a touch under 24, Derozan a touch over 20). Lowry has been great with that, probably because he is a better player.
This is the post I meant to reply to. Yes, your point about Steve Nash winning 3 mvp's when he actually won 2 - are you saying neither was deserved because he is white? or that he only got them because he is white? Your point about musicians really hits close to home - as a white jazz musician, I come across this sentiment from time to time. (eg, pretty much everything Wynton Marsalis has ever said about it) - the idea that white people shouldn't even be playing jazz or can't play 'real jazz' because it's a black art form - got news for ya buddy, it's an American artform- and as most things uniquely American, was born out of the meshing of cultures/musical styles. Basketball is similar in that it is uniquely American, and not defined by race. So let's just tell the Beatles to give back some of their awards because they were influenced by black musicians because no black musician was ever influenced by them or by any other white group Or maybe we should have Larry Bird, Bob Cousy, Dave Cowens, Steve Nash and Dirk Nowitzki give back their mvp's because there was obviously a conspiracy with white dudes winning 5 or 6 out of almost 60 mvp's and there MUST have been more valuable players than them those years, just look at their skin! And finally in the jazz world, Bix Beiderbecke, Glenn Miller, Tommy and Jimmy Dorsey,Benny Goodman, Gil Evans, Bill Evans, Lee Konitz Art Pepper, Stan Getz and many others should not even get space in the jazz history books, because we know that they were only as popular as they were because, well you know.... there had to be better players out there at the time - so it had nothing to do with their hard work and incredible abilities that they got recognition. If you're gonna cherry pick examples, don't make it sound like you're making blanket statements.
And to bring it back finally to the Lin example - when people say he is only popular because of his race, they are essentially throwing the most important parts of his story right down the toilet. While we're at it, let's take him out of the record books, and kick him out of the NBA because he must only be in both on the merits of being Asian American.
I checked usage rate stats. You are right. Derozan has a higher usage rate than Harden. Color me surprised. One thing about Lowry though... he plays in the east. If you swapped Lin for Lowry, I would expect Lin's numbers to go up and Lowry's to go down automatically just because of that. Just like Howard. He might be having trouble being as dominant in west as he was in the east. The whole east west disparity is really starting to skew numbers. In fact, the soft schedule the knicks has is one of the reasons why Linsanity even happened.
Indeed it is more nuanced and Asians and Asian Americans aren't the same. But (1) the behavior and (2) the large presence of "YOFs" (back in the day) and "LOFs" on this forum are identical. I've never pretended to "know the pulse of a 1 billion people" in China. But clearly without his ethnicity and fan base of the same ethnicity, Lin would not be such a provocative subject on the forum. Simple as that. A few years ago, there was a YOF who told me to stop posting about Yao. He couldn't stand any criticism of Yao and his response was to hurl insults and verbally assault people. An interesting fact: Yao is probably my favorite Rockets player of all time. Ironic, huh?
i would choose a black kid that looked more athletic than even another black kid. Happens all the time. I look at skinny black professional athletes or chubby black professional athletes and the way they look will influence my perception of their skills. I also look at Yi Jianlian and my first thought is this kid is mad athletic and will jump 40 inches into the air and 360 dunk it from the foul line.
Great point - except it's not. Derozan and Harden are two completely different types of player - one plays a true sg roll, the other is playing a combo pg/sg roll. And the difference between 20 and 24 shots a game is HUGE. Similarly, Lowry and Lin are very different players - and Lowry averages over 5min more per game. If you don't think Lin could at least be in the same ballpark playing that many minutes per game and as the primary ballhandler (like Lowry) well....hmm, well, you're probably wrong.
But hey, maybe if a lot of people here get their wish (trade Lin for Lowry etc.)I guess we may have the chance to find out.
Was curious about this and looked it up. Numbers are rough, rounded up to closest 1/2 year. Lin, undrafted was 23.5 when Linsanity Feb 2012 happened. (born Oct 1988) Iverson, drafted #1 21.5 1st season Oct 1996 (born June 75) Shaq, drafted #1 20.5 1st season Oct 1992 (born March 72) Jordan, drafted #3 21.5 1st season 1984 (born February 1963) Isiah Thomas, drafted #2, 1st season 1981 (born April 1961) Stockton, drafted #16 22.5 1st season 1984 but only started 5 games (born March 62) would be 23.5 when he started his 7th game. Was info only so we dont speculate or anything like that
If Lin was black he would have been given a D1 scholarship, drafted first round, and everyone would be calling him "athletic" "talented" etc. You know it's true. Also people saying everyone is a fan simply due to him being asian...yeah, Yi Jianlian had a MASSIVE following...
It will end when Lin fans start to accept that Lin is not determining factor in the team's success. He is an important part of the team, but every game thread turns into how Lin is why the team won, why Beverly shouldn't be praised, how if Lin were used right the team would be contenders etc.
Lin has his big contract because he got hot, in New York and is Asian. If he were a black guy in Toronto the mass media wouldn't have given a ****.
Things that are clear: 1) Lin is important to the team, especially sans Harden. 2) He has been a determining factor in more than a handful of games, both as a starter and off the bench. 3) His minutes and position are the least defined out of everyone. So it's a very real possibility that his full talent isn't being used. 4) Game threads turn into Lin threads, but that's generally true for most threads anyways.
Really? Not praise Beverley? That would be pretty mean spirited. BTW, I dont remember seeing this post. Would you be so kind as to point out where and who so I can boycott said poster. Thanks in advance.
I continue to be confused by the reluctance for people to acknowledge that a big reason Lin has such a large fan base is because of his Asian background. No, it's not the only reason people follow him, but yes it plays a very significant role in why he is so popular. Do people not remember how many of our road games last season were those teams asian heritage nights? Do people not notice all the Asian Rockets fans you spot in the stands in our road games this year? This isn't coincidence, it's not a bad thing and it doesn't take away from anything he has done on the court.
Not a bad thing, but pathetic when posters on this board use it as an insult. You see veterans and new-joins alike baiting like mad with asian jokes. Clutch has done a great job regulating this forum as much as possible from Lin's more overzealous fans as well as people who deliberately bait for them to come out. It's pathetic, to the point where you cant even have a legit discussion about Lin because both sides cant handle it. Its a lot better than it was in the beginning though. Clutch didn't have an easy job.
The stats don't matter. What matters is the player is playing well. The stats aren't 100% an indicator of that. If given enough playing time either player could be averaging 20/8, yet still be doing very poorly.
