<blockquote><hr>Originally posted by NIKEstrad I think it's safer to nab the rights to Posey now. He's now our RFA, making contract negotiations a lot easier for us than if he was on Denver (or wherever else). <hr></blockquote> Considering who Denver got in return, you can see they had zero interest in resigning Posey. Plus, they had plenty of cap room to grease a SnT. <blockquote><hr>I have bigger qualms with riding a T-Mo/Nachbar/more 3-guard at the SF than I do with Griffin and T-Mo at PF.<hr></blockquote>Hold it. Who said anything about TMo/Nach at SF, if the trade didn't go down. Clearly, upon this Rice injury, KT would slide over to SF like Larry Brown has him doing, and Rudy has done numerous times. I don't think your comparison is a valid representation of the pros and cons of the trade wrt making the playoffs this year. <blockquote><hr>I also think you're not giving Griffin enough credit-he's ready to handle 30-35 mins. a game now. His play has REALLY stepped up, since about that Chron article-<hr></blockquote>I certainly hope so, NIKE, but he hasn't gone against any low post PFs during this stretch. Orlando Atlanta Denver Boston Those are not the teams we are competing with for the playoffs, and they have little to zero in the way of tough PFs....Rahim is a wimp on defense. I also don't see how only Amare and Brand worry you. All the guys I listed are fully capable of stopping Griffin's fledgling offense and destroying anyone else off our bench when Mo is hurt. We really lose the PF position with no Mo or KT; you have to agree.
heypartner-So you agree that Denver was going to trade Posey for whatever they could get more or less? Having the rights GREATLY increases our chances for resigning him. IMO, MLE guys like Posey will take that from their "current" team because of the familiarity with the situation, as well as the better raises. See Nazr Mohammed. Hypothetically, if Denver isn't able to sign any big names, they would probably exercise their RFA rights on Posey, and trade him midseason a la Marc Jackson. Right now, Posey will be a Rocket for a long time if we want him. It would've been possible to sign Posey as a FA, but not a sure thing at all, so I don't think that's a valid line of reasoning for disagreeing with the move. As for KT at SF, I really think that Rudy didn't consider it ideal, despite your contrary opinion. There was a quote that he had afterwards to the extent of "It just wouldn't work". I'll look for it later. He would use it I suppose, over Morris, but clearly Posey/EG is a lot more desirable over KT/EG. T-Mo and/or Nachbar would still have to play significant minutes because KT/EG in the starting lineup would leave you with no backup 4 off the bench if Mo is out. As for your EG vs. low post argument- of the teams you mentioned, he has gone against SAR and Antoine Walker. While they're not the same, SAR and Walker are both high quality, all-star caliber PFs. If they're not low post PFs (and they're not), is Dirk a low post PF? Not really. Garnett? Webber? Wallace? There's no doubt we're hurt without KT/Mo, but I think T-Mo and EG are solid defenders when they're not being overpowered. A lot of people on this board would disagree with you about Mo's defense.
Good grief, how age can destroy a player... Remember that all-star game where Glen Rice put up like 27 points in a quarter, that was amazing. Personally I would love to see James Posey start the rest of the season even if Rice comes back healthy, and I'm sure that's the general opinion here. What Posey lacks in shooting (and as of late, not much) he more than makes up for in defense and speed . I dont remember a time when the Rockets had such a fast player (without the ball) on the break.
NIKE, I guess we are doomed to play tag. Please let's keep this focused to what little we disagree on. You say the trade has zero bad scenarios. I say that this (Rice/Mo out) is a bad scenario where we regret pulling that trade too soon. I say the trade was a gamble based on injuries; you say it wasn't. The only other thing we disagree on is whether Posey or a similar player would be available this summer. I say easily, and you say that's too much of a risk. <blockquote><hr>Originally posted by NIKEstrad Hypothetically, if Denver isn't able to sign any big names, they would probably exercise their RFA rights on Posey, <hr></blockquote>Why would we wait to make an offer to Posey at Denver's convenience? They must decide in 15-days. What would probably happen is offer a trade first, then go straight for him? Posey likes Houston and he would sign for the same thing from us regardless where his RFA is. <blockquote><hr>As for KT at SF, I really think that Rudy didn't consider it ideal, despite your contrary opinion.<hr></blockquote>Like Rudy considers this injury scenario as ideal as some here at cc.net do? lol Are you denying that KT and EG would be starting right now if the trade didn't go down. Of course you are not denying that, so your point here is moot under the circumstances of what we are discussing. TMo and Nach would not be the rotation at the 3 if we didn't make the trade. Come on, NIKE. If we are going to discuss and break down the trade in light of the injuries, we can't go against what Rudy has done in the past (ideal or not). Imagine that we didn't have Rice or Mo at all. KT is the more important player than a 2/3 swingman in that case, especially considering we have TMo, Hawk and Nach, right? Well, the same applies if these guys are chronicly injured. And that is our present day reality; there is no speculation here. The only speculation is whether Posey or a similar player could have been had for KT in the summer. That's all. Surely you are not going to say that Rudy just *had* to have Posey, like there is no other player suitable. Rudy usually says that upon trade. He didn't gush over Posey like Brown gushed over KT. You've got to believe that Philly worked out that trade, not Rudy/CD; hence, not a pip out of Clutch or Doc or oeilpere about inside manuevers. Without Denver trading Posey prior, he was ours for the taking in the summer, via SnT or straight signing. And if not, we could have shopped for others, with a better understanding of how bad Maurice's heals are.
damn, now that its a real possibility i kind of feel bad about wishing glen rice goes down for the year. i hate to see anyone go down two years in a row but if its the case, hes got to retire. or maybe we can buy him out a-la shawn kemp. as far as posey, id love to keep him, but we will not be able to pay him what he could get elsewhere. with all the fat contracts for backups and roll players (taylor, moochie, cato) how could the rockets afford him? and than where does that leave bostjan if posey does sign long term?
I'll work backwards a bit here: What Brown says doesn't really mean much to me. He tends to say things a lot more conspicuously than Rudy does (see Iverson, KVH, etc.). Besides, there's no denying Brown got a lot more of an instant boost- the value they gave to make the deal work isn't going to affect them for 2 years. Clearly, Rudy values (valued) Posey more than KT- he and the staff were willing to throw in an extra 2nd round pick to make it work. I think T-Mo is certainly in the rotation if Rice and Mo are out, trade or no trade. You can start EG and KT at the forwards. KT can play the backup 4, but he can only play so many minutes between the 3 and the 4. The options are Hawkins, Morris, or 3 guard (Moochie). From what I've seen, Morris ranks ahead of Hawkins in the rotation. The two different scenarios are: With trade: Morris logging minutes at the backup 4 next to Posey (SF). Without trade: Morris logging minutes at the backup 3 next to KT (PF). You think having to rely on 2 younger guys like Griffin/Morris to handle the cream PF crop of the west is the worser of two evils. You seem to have a greater opinion of the 2 PF lineup than I do. I think playing Morris as a backup 4 with a legit 3 is a better option than playing KT out-of-position (IMO) and forcing to play he and Griffin at the forward slots together. We've gone over it before, but honestly, it just wasn't an ideal situation- both needed/deserved minutes, and forcing them to play together stunted Griffin's growth IMO-Yao's need for the inside, combined with his 3P range and KT's lack of 3P range more or less resigned him to the outside, which is part of the reason why we're only recently started to see the beginnings of an inside game. That wasn't the ideal. Rudy's "Griffin's the future" quote shows that. KT at the 3 lessens Griffin's effectiveness at the 4, and I don't think KT the 3 vs. Posey the 3 is even very close. I'll take Morris backing up the 4 rather than forcing a square peg into a round hole. As an aside, we haven't seen anything that makes Mo's injury as serious as you stated. Any particular reason that you think he won't be back for the stretch run? The playoffs? You can agree, if Mo is healthy, and Rice is injured, Posey is clearly more valuable than KT (if only by sheer luck of Rice getting hurt more seriously than Mo)
T-Mo didn't look too shabby last night, he hit two BIG shots in the 4th quarter. He just needs more PT and he will be a decent role player off the bench. I voted 2 weeks - 1 month. The worst part about these injuries is that we are hitting a very tough stretch in our schedule. I am hoping that our young guys will come through for the Rockets. Houston is tied for #6 in the West, only 2 back of Phoenix for 3rd in the West. Phoenix is losing in the 4th to San Antonio and we play them tomorrow night. A chance to climb up in the standings. Phoenix also plays Dallas and then New Orleans next.
NIKE, let's stop. OK. The trade talk really bores me. I was answering specific questions, regarding whether people think the risk of the trade is upon us now. I don't quite understand why you think we are not hurt if Mo becomes/remains chronic. The reason his left achilles is hurting is because his right achilles is not 100%. It's a reasonable question to ask: Was it ever??? I don't really want to drift into listening to you explanation for the trade beyond discussing what the heck we are going to do with no Rice and Mo, if this continues. imo, we need Rice and Mo way more than many on this BBS are willing to admit....you included. We lost a lot of chemistry right there, and we are trying to implement motion. It makes me sick to my stomach to think about, and some people seem like it is good for us and makes us better. You seem that way in your responses.
HP, I think the reason why many people are "happy" about Rice's injury (Taylor's is another matter) is this: 1. Rice has not been seen to contribute much but still occupy a big chunk of PT. I know you believe that Rice's worth is more than what the numbers show, and that opponents' respect of his outside shot opens up the offense, etc. But all these, imo, are not hard and fast facts. They are just opinions/speculations. It is equally legit to opine that Rudy simply "respect" Rice's veteranship (is that a word?) too much to bench him for long. 2. We have plenty of depth at Rice's position. Sure, you lose some chemistry anytime you have injury. But it's not like we had a lot of chemistry to lose in the first place. The new offense is new to everyone anyway. 3. Having Rice out of the picture for a while could be good for the development of the young guys. It could be similar to Cato's absense earlier on, which pushed Yao into the scene. If point #1 above is correct, then Rice's injury might be the only way that forces Rudy (or gives Rudy an excuse) to start playing the young players more. I have been biased against Rice from the beginning. But of course I think my bias is legit.
As much as I hate to see a guy hurt, Rice's injury will help the Rox. Posey provides so much more than Rice can, including but not limited to defense, rebounding, speed, and he even has a decent shot. Rice's role on the team before the injury was analogous to Matt Bullard or Pete Chillcut. Shoot open 3's, and that's it.
maybe you never saw him in the post? but if you look at the post up fg% of this team, and you really have to look hard to find it (good luck), Rice is first on the team..yes even shooting better from there than Yao...so yeah..he doesn't just shoot threes...you Texans really do reassert your idiocy often...my god..yeah, that Pete Chilcut sure gets respect from other teams, and what a leader. You moron.
