How long do we have to wait till we get great Centers?

I don't think there will ever be another center that will be able to do what Olajuwon did.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/n_-9Z2LF4fI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

you guys who are saying it is all about the rules are stretching the truth. The truth is there are no centers anywhere close to the level of Hakeem and Shaq. The rules changes aren't going to make Hakeem and Shaq pedestrian centers. And returning to illegal defense is not going to make Howard learn how to shoot/move like Hakeem or dominate like Shaq.

Remember, the NCAA allows zones too, has never had illegal defense, and the HOF centers dominated there. Also note, the zones allow them to dominate on defense. Can you images Hakeem or Mutombo being allowed to roam more freely on defense?

Hakeem would score every bit as well as Aldridge...and better.

Don't say this era of no dominate centers is about rules. What, did coaches in HS and NCAAs and Europe just all decide to stop teaching post play? No!

Don't be absurd.

 

The Center position is a lot better than people make it out to be. Shooting Guard is currently the weakest position by far.

 

Which is another reason why the rule change argument is way overstated in this thread regarding centers. For all the reason ppl are saying the rules make it hard on centers; those same reasons should say it is easier on SGs. But yet, as you say, this is definitely a down decade for SGs

 

I dont think its strictly because of the rule changes.

How many guys in the league now even have the size and skill set to be like Dream, Ewing, Shaq, Robinson, Yao, etc...?

Even guys like Dwight, who is very good, is very limited offensively.

 

Nah there just aren't many good SGs is all. That's all going to change quickly with whose coming in the league though.

PGs on the other hand though...

 

So, do you see any good centers in the NCAAs? Is that because of NBA rule changes. NCAAs has always had zone rules. Yet, name one great center from the NCAAs or Europe, lately.

You see...you are actually making my point for me.

It is all about how rare Hakeem and Shaq are.

 

I think the center position is easily stronger than the SG position right now.

 

There are plenty of good centers in the NCAA though, lots of the ones that come into the league dominated college. Even guys like Omar Samhan dominated college.

 

which makes our point that rules changes aren't an excuse for centers sucking vs the 90s. If rules changes was a reason, then SGs should be having a field day era right now.

 

I would say there are some pretty good centers who just play a different style. Noah, Marc Gasol, Dwight would have been good in the 90s as well. Al Jefferson is the traditional back to the basket dominant scorer. Cousins has an interesting blend of skills.

 

who? lols

Did they dominate like Robinson, Hakeem, Ewing and Shaq?

And the ones who did dominate like Davis, Drummond and Cousins, left after one year and our doing just fine in the NBA.

Rules changes is not an excuse. Hakeem and Shaq are just rare. That's all there is to it.

 

Who is exactly my point though. Omar Samhan dominated college and even took his team to the sweet 16 doing it.

Thabeet was a force in college....

 

Gotcha....I was waiting for the Thabeet post. So you are further making my point, the point is that NCAAs and Europe have the very same rules as NBA. They've always had zones.

So, what's the difference. Not rule changes. Rules changes did not make Thabeet suck in the NBA.

Are you even following my point?

 

You said that centers don't dominate college but they still do. You said there weren't good centers but there always have been.

The rules are the same but again what we are arguing is how the refs officiate centers, not the rules...but how they blow their whistles.

Also unfair to say that they'd have to be Shaq or Hakeem. Of course they won't be.

 

The illegal defense impact has nothing to do with zones, it's about how you can lean off your man and hedge between the 2, allowing you to both close out a pass and hack at the ball if a center puts it down, it means there's no such thing as having lots of time in the post to create something.

On the other end, where you could push (err...hand check) players out on the perimeter, that's all gone, so they basically reduced the efficiency of post play by about 5%, they also simultaneously increased perimeter efficiency by the same amount, so we have a situation where nba teams don't really want post play and so young players don't really look to develop it.

It's also why players like Rodman could work, or even our Howard/Asik lineup which doesn't anymore, you could send him off into a corner and his man had to stay on him or illegal d, now they just play free safety instead, so where does that lead? a bunch of jump shooting power forwards maybe?

We're not saying that the current centers are as good as Hakeem or Shaq, but that the rule changes and interpretation changes would slot those 2 down from top 10 to probably the edge of the top 25-50.

 

The game is too guard/forward favored for centers to be a major factor. The fact that little touch fouls are called on the perimeter while the big guys are practically murdered in the paint without a call shows everything.

We should all remember how Yao was treated. Yes, he was 7'6 but how many times was he hacked or fouled without a call? If the game was called fairly for Yao, he would have simply dominated. 28ppg, 14rpg, 3bpg should be minimum for player as big and as talented as Yao. Now we see it again with Howard. Teams basically hack the crap out of him without a call but when he uses his power, it's an offensive foul. Then add that it seems that the NBA is against Howard. If the game was called fairly for Howard he should be averaging 25/15/5.

To get those numbers in today's NBA as a center you have to be able to do everything; run the floor, hit foul shots, hit mid range baskets, grab rebounds, etc. The only big men capable of doing that are Cousins and Davis.

 

And you are saying the NBA rules make them bad NBA centers, but the NBA rules are the same.

Good luck convincing us it is all about the refs.

 

yet the Shooting Guard position is the weakest in the NBA.

y'all don't make sense. The reason there are no dominant NBA centers like Hakeem and Shaq anymore, is because they are so freaking RARE.

It has nothing to do with refs and rule changes. There are no players in the NBA who are like Hakeem.

It's just that simple. Quit with overthinking this.

 

This has nothing at all to do with Hakeem. We are not taking about dudes being Hakeem like. We are taking dudesthat can use their size and strength to score around 20 a game.

When the best centers get around 15 nowadays...

There has never been another Jordan.... Didn't stop guys from scoring though. So I don't understand bringing Hakeem into this