First, Llull is as of now a better player than Rubio is. Second, and don't trust anyone that says otherwise, Llull is a shooting guard and not a point guard. If Morey really projects him to be a point guard then he has some strange ideas on what a point guard is supposed to do. Llull is less of a point guard than Brooks is. He does have good handles so he can play there, but he is mostly an all shoot, all score guard. There is hardly any point guard in his game. I like Llull as a player. IMHO he would be an upgrade over Lee and Taylor. Llull is a good Euroleague player, but not a great one. He probably has the potential to become a very good Euroleague player under the right circumstances. Lately, he hasn't improved that much and he seems to be nearing to his peak, other than of course just from getting better through gaining more experience. He had an injury to his foot and it seems to have negatively affected his speed and his jumping ability a little bit, although lately he is starting to look a little more explosive again. So hopefully that was just a temporary thing. To me, Llull would be a backup shooting guard. I think he would be better than guys like Taylor and Lee and Von Wafer and those types of players that the Rockets have had in that role in recent seasons. The main thing that I like about Llull is that he has some competitiveness and he is not afraid to do things on the court. He is competitive and the Rockets need more guys like that. IMO Eliyahu has more ability and potential than Llull does. Eliyahu could really be a nice player. The problem with him is that he plays literally no defense. He is considered one of the worst defensive players in the Euroleague. That is really the whole thing that is holding him back. He could also benefit by developing an outside shot, which he does not really have. But he is quite talented though. If he ever started to try on defense he could be quite a good player. He's basically in the same position as Llull in Euroleague. They are young and talented players and noticeably athletic. However, they are far from what you would consider to be stars. For both of them, they probably fit better in the NBA than in the Euroleague though. The reason being with the defensive 3 seconds rule and the no-hand check rule and the way the refs allow less contact in the NBA, it allows guys like them that can get to the rim and finish to have a lot more easing scoring opportunities than they get in the Euroleague. So many of those dunks and layups that you get in the NBA if you can attack the rim (which they can) are simply not available in the Euroleague due to the rules. They would also probably both fit well in an Adelman offense. Eliyahu is a power forward and not a small forward. As it seems as with Llull, Morey is advertising these guys at positions that they are not good at. Llull can play point guard, but he does not play well there at all. He plays well at shooting guard and that should clearly be his position. Eliyahu can play small forward, but without much effectiveness at all. He is much better as a power forward. Rockets fans should understand Llull is a shooting guard and Eliyahu is a power forward.
Llull has had consistently slightly better stats than Rubio in the Euroleague. Rubio's Euroleague stats have been quite average. Neither of them is close to having the stats of the top players in the Euroleague. I don't really know where this myth came from about Rubio being such a good Euroleague player, but it is certainly a myth. Rubio has been considered a very good Euroleague player, perhaps even a great one, for his age, not just a good Euroleague player in general. In general, meaning counting all players, of all ages, he has been considered an average player in the Euroleague. This is something that seems to be getting misconstrued by NBA fans. Rubio isn't remotely close to being one of the best players in the Euroleague. He is considered a top Euroleague player as compared to other guys that are also around his age, like other 19-20 year old players. That is a huge difference from how it seems that he is being viewed in these boards and being hyped up by the NBA.
You should not forget that NBA GMs (while they are often wrong) have a team of experts to project the ceiling for 19-20 year old guys. Nowitzki, for comparison, at that age did not even play Euroleague. Heck, he didn't even play 1st division in Germany. He played 2nd division in Germany. Yet, he was drafted very high, because some NBA GMs projected him to have a very high ceiling, which turned out to be correct (remember, he was traded for Tractor Traylor....). So, evidently, some NBA GMs are thinking the same thing about Rubio right now. While I appreciate your insight, I think you are focusing more on current performance than on potential. Even Lionel Messi (to look at a football comparison) was not a finished product when he was younger than 20.
Thanks for the info Would you say Lior Eliyahu could eventually be better than scola? If so, how soon? And what NBA player's game is similar to his? As for Llull, I think Morey's always had the idea that the NBA was changing...pgs will score more and the PFs would be more like landry and dorsey, short, but athletic..probably figured the SFs would be taller like Eliyhau. Has turned out that way somewhat, but probably not as much as he figured.
Dirk is a great shooter and a great offensive player. Dirk could always shoot and score. There is no comparison at all. Rubio is probably the worst shooting guard in the Euroleague. Rubio's scoring ability is definitely limited. Of course, Rubio is young at age 20, but I can't see even the slightest comparison to Dirk at that age. I also don't understand why just because Rubio is hyped up by some NBA scouts and GMs that he must be this great prospect. Every year they hype up some players that turn out to be nothing. I do believe that Rubio would have no problem being a starter in the NBA. However, I have absolutely no clue why so many Rockets fans say he will be this big star and all this other stuff. He is in no way good enough to be that kind of a player. I know people say look at Kidd, but the fact that Kidd can't shoot has meant that every team he ever played on eventually lost because the opponents in the playoffs just left him open all game and dared him to shoot. That's the same thing with Rubio. Only IMO Kidd is a better shooter than Rubio and he definitely has more range than Rubio does. Also, Kidd is much better at getting his own shot and finishing around the basket than Rubio is. Again, because of the rules it is easier to finish around the rim in the NBA than in the Euroleague, but I still don't see Rubio being as good as Kidd is at that. Any team that has Rubio as their point guard is going to be playing 4 on 5 on offense in the playoffs against a good defensive team.
For Llull, he is a shooting guard. I think he is maybe even less of a point guard than Brooks is. He is more like a Francis type of player on offense, except he's a lot better shooter than Francis was. Defensively, Llull is too slow laterally to guard the quick point guards in the Euroleague. Llull is also a very good spot up shooter off the catch. His mentality is to score and shoot and not to pass. For me there is no question at all that he is a shooting guard. I don't think Eliyahu could ever be as good as Scola is. The lack of defense is similar though. Eliyahu is definitely a lot more athletic than Scola is. He is also to my eye a bit taller and longer than Scola. He is I would say, 6-9 to 6-10 with fairly good length and maybe 235 or something like that. He could play PF in the NBA easily. He has the size for it and he is also really strong for his size. He looks bigger than Landry for example. His hands are huge. Eliyahu is basically a guy that would excel on a team like Golden State, Phoenix, the Knicks. On a team where as a big he could run up and down the court and dunk everything and not have to play any defense. He would fit well in Adelman's small lineup. I am not sure about an NBA comparison, but definitely not Scola in similarity. I would say he is more in the mold of a David Lee type of player, but not that good of a rebounder as Lee is. Or maybe even a Kenyon Martin type of player, but Eliyahu is more mobile and a better ball handler, but a worse defender. Maybe he is like the anti-Kirilenko. Similar player physically and skill-wise, except he isn't as good of a shooter as Kirilenko. But instead of being mainly an all defense guy like Kirilenko, he is an all offense guy. But his physical tools are similar to Kirilenko. I don't think he has nearly that same wingspan though as AK-47, but still pretty good length. He is definitely more suited to play PF than SF. I don't know for sure, it's kind of hard to give an NBA comparison for him. He isn't quick enough laterally to defend the small forward position in the Euroleague. Neither one of them (Llull-Eliyahu) is in the level of Scola.
it's interesting that you make the comparison between him and kidd because kidd couldn't shoot to save his life when he came into the league. it still isn't by any means his strength, but he has turned himself into a solid 3pt shooter. further, both are great play makers and top notch defenders. well at least it's my understanding that rubio is a top notch defender. maybe you can shed some light on that too.
Rubio has been benched twice this year by his coach for not playing defense (lack of effort apparently). Most of his defense is hard hand checking while ball hawking the other team's point guard and you can't do that in the NBA. Well, maybe the NBA refs allow him to you never know how much they are going to baby certain players that the NBA wants to market. The refs allow Chris Paul to hand check quite a bit so Rubio might get some leeway in that. Rubio's defense at the Euroleague level is what I would call physical. I would not describe it as necessarily good though. He usually struggles to keep the quicker point guards in front of him. If the NBA takes that hand checking away from him he will lose most of his defensive game. He does have quick hands, nice anticipation and long arms and he is good at stealing the ball. Under the old NBA rules he would have been a very good defender, but with the current rules I would say more like above average. Jason Kidd can't shoot. Neither can Ricky Rubio. Rubio is worse. Rubio has to be the all time leader in Euroleague history in most air balls. I made the point that every team Kidd ever played on was eventually eliminated in the playoffs exactly due to his not being able to shoot. The strategy of teams in the Euroleague is to leave Rubio wide open, dare him to shoot, and to stay back on the other players when he drives and force him to become a scorer and not a passer. Any time he faces a good team which employs this strategy, Rubio plays terrible and is quickly benched by his coach. He is constantly compared to Nash and called the next Nash, but he is the complete opposite of Nash offensively. When teams do that to Nash he is able to make shots and score. Although it does make him less effective because it takes a lot of easy baskets away from his teammates, he is still effective doing that and can light you up with his own scoring. Rubio will just start throwing up air balls and bricks, or he will then try to force his passes way too much and he will start to make wild and uncalled for turnovers. Once again, a lot of this is understandable at his age, but the fact remains that since he was age 16 he has shown little improvement in these weak areas of his game. Keep in mind also that Kidd can create his own shot and he can finish around the basket and he always could do that. In fact, he was much better at that when he was younger than he is now. Rubio really struggles to create his own shot and he really struggles to finish around the rim. The good thing that Rubio has going for him in that regard is that he does have a natural knack for drawing fouls and he is an excellent free throw shooter. Part of this however is the refs giving him calls, but in the NBA this would only increase as the game is called much tighter in the NBA and because the league wants all of its marketed players to shine. Basically, shooting and scoring-wise, Rafer Alston was much better than Rubio is. As far as I can remember, Alston was never very popular amongst the Rockets fan base because he could not shoot. Alston was a way better shooter than Rubio is and he had a lot more shooting range than Rubio does. I would say Rubio is something similar to Rondo in that if you surrounded him with good scorers that he could then rack up assists and direct the team. However, if your team is going to need him to shoot or score then they could struggle a lot. Rubio is also much more suited to an open style offense. He really needs to be in a running team. He just is not suited at all for half court basketball, at least not yet anyway.
I'll be delighted if he can turn out like Dragic, then atleast its a tradable asset considering we are stacked at the gaurds already.
What about Rondo? I know Rondo has the defensive talent that Rubio probably doesn't have. But Rondo is a much worse shooter than Kidd but his offensive effectiveness seems fine.
As I said, Rubio is like Rondo in that he must have a bunch of scorers around him to be effective. No way is Rondo as effective if he plays for the Rockets. Rondo and Rubio are very similar players. Rubio is a bit bigger and Rondo is a bit more athletic. However, honestly, even Rondo is a better shooter than Rubio is and Rondo is a much better finisher at the rim and better at creating his own shot. Rubio has less range and is a worse shooter than Rondo. Rubio needs a team of big time scorers around him. I don't see such a team in Houston as Rondo has with the Celtics.
He look OK . He has combined both guard positions, as usual. With the return of Prigioni, expect much more SG minutes for him. Personally, I've always thought that he has more potential as PG. Messina is using him a lot as scoring reference at SG because they lacked this piece last year and he appeared with great confidence to get that spot and lead the team at very difficult moments; he gained that role... But the thruth is he has never been a scorer until last season, and he lacks some talent/size to be an efficient scoring reference on a very good team as starting SG. This is the reason why we're seeing those low %s. His jumpshots are frecuently contested by taller players, teams already know him as scorer and he lacks the talent/size to avoid efficiently the defenders awaiting. He's having troubles to finish plays near the basket. He's able to beat his defender (very quick first step), and he's explosive enough to go to the basket, but once he's there, he lacks the natural scoring talent/size/frame to score consistently over traffic. His jumpshot is good, but sometimes difficult of making with a 6-5/6-6/6-7 player contesting the shot (he's about 6-3/6-4 with not a great wingspan). It has a nice form, and certainly the release point is high (he has a good elevation), so surely he could make this shot more consistently as a PG in the NBA. Still young, with repetitions can improve it a little bit. It's very interesting that he always shoots with a high level of confidence. All in all, I see him better as PG for the NBA. Being a big and athletic PG, he has also more defensive potential at that position (and knows how to do it), and can fit in this offense because he doesn't need to handle the ball / make decisions too often (not a pure PG, sometimes too eager; not a disaster either, knows the game). He can pass it and play off the ball, he's very good at it. Can shoot it, will push the tempo after a rebound, and will draw fouls with the NBA rules (very aggressive to the basket). If he ends being a Rocket, people's gonna love his competitiveness. Possesses a great motor, and we talk about a very emotive player who connects very well with the crowd (fan favourite in Madrid). He always plays with high level of confidence, he's never scared, but at the same time is a very mature and smart guy (not a Von Wafer) and has already some important experience acumulated. Has the ability to make some clutch shots/defensive plays. Rockets currently don't have a guy like him, we have good defenders, good shooters and some competitive players, but nobody as high-spirited as Sergio. He's mentally a true winner, has a strong character, and it is the reason why he has progressed that much and has emerged as a leader of a veteran team, even being the youngest player.
A recent game of Llull: <object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/nSPKw9uVIGU?fs=1&hl=es_ES"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/nSPKw9uVIGU?fs=1&hl=es_ES" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object> Just if you want some Ricky... <object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ImbWte4qo1s?fs=1&hl=es_ES"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ImbWte4qo1s?fs=1&hl=es_ES" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>
Is he gonna come off the bench with Prigioni back? There's a little encountered point from our two clutchfans euroleague experts is he better suited to be a pg or a sg? From a physical standpoint he looks ideal for pg. Would you call him a bad pg defender for the NBA? For me, half of his potential resided in this. I don't think this weakness was the main reason for his teams being eliminated, what took him so close to being a legend is how he made his teams overachieve and that’s why he lost, his teams weren’t that good to begin with, but I digress.
I also think Rubio has been highly overrated, as has also been the possibilities of us acquiring or even inquiring about him.
Well, you can hear Sam Hinkie, who knows more than both of us. <object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/0I6954IBFEc?fs=1&hl=es_ES"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/0I6954IBFEc?fs=1&hl=es_ES" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object> Remember that Euroleague is not even half of his season, he plays also the Spanish league.
Llull isn't good enough point guard skills wise to play point guard in the Euroleague. He also isn't good enough point guard skills wise to play point guard in the NBA. Llull is too slow laterally to guard the one position in the Euroleague with any effectiveness at all against the quick points in the Euroleague. He is too slow laterally in the Euroleague to guard at the one and he is also too slow laterally to guard the same position in the NBA. He plays as a shooting guard in the Euroleague and he will need to be one in the NBA also. As a backup shooting guard, I think that he could be a nice addition to the Rockets.
