<blockQUOTE><hr>Originally posted by NewYorker A. I wasn't talking to you.<hr></blockquote> Sorry, I should have quoted you, rather than mention your name. I wasn't talking to you, either, just using your name to show to crossover what I meant. Sometimes I fail to make it clear who I am talking to, but I blame the medium of communication for that. [I edited the above post to place your name in the paragraph rather than outside it....that should make it more clear who I'm talking to....sorry] <blockquote><hr>B. I have no idea what you are saying in this discombobulated mass of text...I don't even know if you are agreeing with me or not...frankly I don't care.<hr></blockquote> If you truly don't care, then why should any of us care about your words. Think about it. Do you really not care if I agree or disagree? Or is that some sort of "Hey white boy, move aside, this is my topic" claim to ownership of the topic. Do you even see that crossover slapped me in misunderstanding, and if anything, I'm trying to get to the bottom of it. Or should I just accept your *slap* of dismissal, as well, and shut up. Anyhow, screw the misunderstanding. It happens, and that is largely what this thread is about. But what's freaking up with talking about race like you did for others to listen, then saying "frankly, I don't care" what this white boy is saying, even if he is agreeing with me. allow me to restate for the 3rd time in this thread NewYorker, <b>Intent and passion behind words determines degradation and racism.</b> That is exactly what you said, and exactly what I said...read my *first sentence* in this thread. No matter if I am looking for agreement or not, I'll never say "I frankly don't care," because the topic is too important to me. I care to understand both agreement and disagreement. do you?? Or do you just want to (in your words re: racism) "have no clue" about the white boy take of the Maravich quote, as if claiming some sort of strange ownership of the topic of racism.
<blockquote><hr>Originally posted by Invisible Fan Ignorance can be solved. Hatred and bigotry is a harder issue to takle with. Yet with mainstream PC, we let ignorance fester and flourish.<hr></blockquote> Man, you say it so much better than I. I've been saying for a long time that shutting people up is no solution...it is better to all levels of racism (from both races) come out--it's there either way, so it might as well cbe heard and understood. Only then can we find out what active, harmful racism is versus benign racism (found only in ignorant choice of words, but not real intent). But Invisible Man, I've never considered that PC fosters ignorance. Quite a thought-provoking comment there. I can honestly say that I feel like I've been taught something today I'll never forget. <blockquote><hr>When you hear an offensive remark, it's a staging point into wondering what kind of person the speaker is.<hr></blockquote> It is also a staging point for pent up emotions to surface in the receiver of the remarks. That's where it becomes tough for anyone like me to say tolerance to letting it out is the key to learning. As you can see in crossover's remarks, some blacks feel there is an earned right of retribution to say "Shut up, you can't say that." But then where does the PC Police stop? As you say, it is a hard topic to tackle. Your claim that regardless of anyone's take "Political Correctness fosters ignorance" is a good thing to contemplate. At some point the notion of a right to tell someone to shut up at the slightest assumption to their real meaning gets in the way of tackling the issue. It's like, "yes I hear you, blacks have at least earned the right to demand PC retribution, and yes I hear the white argument about double standards." But if you step away from the argument and look at it, you realize that the argument is more about words--words that merely scratch the surface of what everyone is trying to say. Arguing about words and their use and who can use them and not is not really the issue, when you think about it.
Don't you people know by now white people stereotypes are ok, and all others are bad. BTW I wish to be refered to as AngloAmerican from now on, and it's high time we got some government funding damnit
That was clear written by a white trash wasp. There is no freaking PC philosophy. The whole idea behind PC is that by modifying your language you are somehow making a difference. PC has nothing to do with diversity or tolerance, it's about covering up intolerance and hiding what one really thinks. That's all. PC works because people put more emphasis on words then meaning, just like the guy who started this thread.
This is why I think so. I feel that Political Correctness on the whole is like a machine that has gone out of control. What was once paved with good intentions has turned a different direction, sort of like what Affirmative Action was meant to be: a flawed solution to the greater problem. There's no doubt that bigoted and inflammatory remarks with the intent to hurt or anger should be stopped. But we've put a blanket on almost all remarks for the issue of race as "racist". So without some form of dialogue, how are we going to get through our initial assumptions? There are some general assumptions I make when I think about people willing to speak their mind. Their intent is not meant to be hurtful. They're willing to have an open mind on the issue. They're willing to change and discuss. They have to have a lot of patience. Realizing that and saying what you think is probably the hardest part. It's because we all carry some degree of ignorance and tactlessness, so inevitably you're setting yourself up to be an ass. It's also hard to deal with missteps, and sometimes you feel like giving up altogether. I guess it takes some degree of patience on the other end as well. You can't rationalize frustration or anger. I read Crossover saying that "white male society is still long overdue for the humility they should suffer and respect it should be giving for the way blacks and women have been treated". I can understand that to a point, but I can never fully understand it because I'm not black and I haven't felt the racism black people might recieve. We all recieve some degree of racism, some more than others. But saying that a group of people is long overdue in order for them to understand the suffering of another group is petty. It's a form of vengence. It's like a grudge you hold that poisons the way you think. There are some people that believe that forgiveness does not neccessarily mean the offending party deserves it, but that it is given by the aggrieved for the aggrieved to move on. When we move past that, it could mean that humility and respect does not have to come through suffering, but through words and understanding. I get too idealistic sometimes...
Why, yes it is. Good call. Note the deep spiritual peace beaming from within, especially when compared to the anger and the heavy heart so apparent in Big Country.
ANYTHING that has a color involved in the statement is a racist statement. Whether the statement is good or bad... If you say a "white" guy did this or that... instead of a "guy"...that is a statement that suggests race, which is a racist statement. The same way you couldnt say anything about a woman without it being a sexist comment. Stereotypes are bad regardless if that is good or bad. Because it is prejudgement. Noone likes to be prejudged!!! So when someone says a black man has soul, is just as offensive as a white guy who doesn't have rhythm. Which I never understood, considering the most wonderful musicians that ever lived were white...but that doesn't matter...because we are all the same dammit. The sooner we forget what color of skin someone has...the sooner we can become what we really are....which is all of god's children. Sorry for the religious reference. ps- When you call someone a boy when they are a man...that is how they used to degrade black men during the slavery days. Also when someone tells you to be a man...because they are no longer a boy, is another reason why i wouldn't want to be called a boy in any context. All in all...peace love and rock n' roll to everyone!
RocketsRuuule, Isn't a role model largely a stereotype to copy. Isn't the stereotype that all firemen are heros or teachers are trustworthy and want to help kids or priests are good -- aren't those all stereotypes worth being and following. I personally think comedians who use racial stereotypes are often quite hilarious. The intent is all that matters, not the actual words. Making a list of words to not use does not eliminate stereotypes. I can offend someone by locking my door, or not making eye contact, or ignoring them. I personally do not think all stereotypes are degrading or offensive. Stereotypes are also not always about gender, age or race. You have cultural and subcultural and even geographical stereotypes. Upbringing, education, hobbies, job, sports, political affiliations....there are many, many sources of stereotypes. Stereotypes are indeed our nature. If you expect to eliminate stereotypes from the human race, you are going to be waiting a long time. Even if we could "boldly go where no man as gone before," Captain Kirks crew embraced their culture stereotypes. imo, it is not a viable solution to say we need to get rid of stereotypes. imo, we need to admit our stereotypes and try to understand them. we need to talk and listen and learn tolerance for stereotypes, learn from them, then foster and embrace positive stereotypes.
Everytime you use a stereotype, you are alienating every person who doesn't follow that stereotype. Role models are not a stereotype, that is a role that person wants to assume. A role model is something that everyone should want to be...regardless of race, creed, religion....so it is not a "biased" towards a particular group of people..so it is not a stereotype. And when you talk about fire fighters and stuff...not everyone of them are like that...and it is unfair to make them feel as if they should be, all they have to do is their job to the best of their ability. That is a job description, not a stereotype. But I are only talking about racial stereotypes...to discuss other things would take forever in a day. Of course there are other stereotypes. Plus, you have to earn the title of role model...and ANYONE can assume that role, so it is again, not biased. Meaning..when you say a particular race is better at something than another, there is a suggestion that since he is black, or white, that he must be better. That is a biased suggestion. Again...anthing that is biased is WRONG. A racial stereotype is when someone is something before you know them...such as, "Asians are great at math", and for every aisian guy who you put that stereotype on...like my best friend of 15 years...who is terrible at math, he gets soo frustrated everytime someone thinks he should do something because of that stereotype. You are being racist and biased towards him when you think such things. No, i dont think we will ever get over racism, or stereotypes...blah blah blah, but we are speaking idealy...and how we are going to get over it...well, that would take a library of books to discuss. But, I enjoyed your response...this is nothing personal...and good to discuss. Later dudes..
