You can't just go by FG%. You have to look at the type of shots they take. Francis gets more layups/dunks than Pierce does. Francis is more explosive and can get into the lane and finish better than Pierce can. Pierce takes too many jumpshots and shoots his fair share of off balance, defended, Kobe Bryant-like bad shots. The level of difficulty of the shots Pierce takes is higher than that of Francis'. Sure, that is Pierce's own fault, but that doesn't mean he's a bad shooter; it means that he has bad shot selection. Pierce was actually a 40+% 3pt shooter until these past 2 years. He's no Ray Allen or Wally Szczerbiak in terms of shooting, but he's a notch or two above Francis.
The numbers I posted are career numbers and Pierce has one more year in the league than Francis. His number are what they are. Its not an anamoly. They're the same type of shooter. I've never seen anyone say Francis doesn't take some difficult shots. On a sidenote, Marbury is proving his value right now in Greece.
pierce and iverson have both carried teams to the playoffs and iverson was just nasty that one season bringing philadelphia to the finals. i hate doing this but in steve's defense i think he EASILY makes the playoffs the last 4 years had he been in the east with an east schedule. that being said he wasn't and he has only made the playoffs once, so i'll rank him below both iverson and pierce. prediction: he will carry orlando this year to the playoffs and prove his worth as at least a lower echelon franchise player. i think marbury is a bad teammate, he puts up high assist numbers but his attitude is weak and just smells of me-first. steve has not and has never been a selfish basketball player. people say he is, he's been unfairly labeled as one but he is, i think, CLEARLY, a team guy. he's made selfish decisions off the court(superbowl, draft night) but his mistakes on the court are more bad-desicion making rather than i'm doing this on my own i don't need you. his heart is in the right place i believe. of those guys here's my ranking: pierce iverson francis brand marbury with iverson probably deteriorating and steve in an easier conference i think he can overtake him and even pierce within the year.
Am I the most non-biased person in here? I am NOT a fan of Francis' game. That's just me. I know some are, and that's fine, just take that into account when you see my rankings. 1.) Pierce 2.) Iverson 3.) Brand 4 & 5.) Marbury & Francis tied. I think Marbury has more physical talent than Francis but it's hard to ignore the fact that he seems to cause more trouble than he's worth. Because he has more physical talent, I voted for Franics being worse than all 4, but now that I think about it, it might be a testament to Francis that he's less talented than Marbury and still puts up around the same #'s. Marbury is proving how overrated he is in these Olympics.
You haven't seen much of Paul Pierce then if you think the level of difficulty of Francis' shots compares to that of Pierce's. Sure, Francis takes some difficult shots, but if you watch some Celtic games, you'll see the degree of difficulty of Pierce's shots; he takes some bad, off balance shots. I'm not sure what your definition of "shooting" is. If you are judging shooting based purely on FG%, then your definition is different from mine. I mean Allan Houston is a career 44% shooter. Is Steve Francis just about the same quality of shooter as he is? What about Ray Allen? He's a career 45% shooter; that's not much higher than Francis' 43% either. Maybe you're including shooting layups into your definition- if so, then sure, Francis is a better finisher than Pierce is. However, I'm going by the quality of jumpshooter each one of them is, and Pierce has more range and the more reliable jumpshot.
Pierce's percentages these past two years have been abnormally bad if you compare them to the rest of his career. 1st 4 years: 44.4% FG, 39.3% 3ptFG Last 2 years: 40.9% FG, 30.1% 3ptFG Seems like a pretty big dropoff to me.
Physical talent as in athleticism or basketball skills? If it's basketball skills, then I agree, Marbury has more in that area. If it's athleticism however, I'd have to say that Francis is quite a bit more athletic than Marbury is.
All 5 players are second tier stars. (As someone pointed out, Iverson used to be top tier.) Each of them is better in some ways than others. It's very hard to rank them.
Common pgab, just admit it. Look at the numbers on a HOUSTON ROCKETS board. Put this poll on an unbiased board, and the results will look even worse for Francis. You FAIL to mention Francis TO and asst/to numbers in your stats. You FAIL to mention that he gets his numbers in almost 2 extra minutes. Which means Pierce scores 4 more in 2 less minutes. I did not choose to ignore that Iverson is not the player he was 2 years ago, but clearly, he's still better than Steve Francis. Iverson played PG MUCH more effectively than Steve did early in his career, and now that he's a SG, it's no contest. You want to compare Iverson RECENTLY with Francis? I know you're a fan of stats, until they go against you ofcourse, so I'm sure you saw that Iverson averaged 26.4 ppg vs 16.6 ppg 28% from 3pt land vs 29% from 3pt land 4.2 3PA vs 3.2 3PA 38.7 FG% vs 40.3 FG% 23.4 FGA vs 14.1 FGA 6.8 assists vs 6.2 assists (Ivy is a SG remember) 3.7 rebounds vs 5.5 rebounds 2.4 STL vs 1.8 stl Considering the sheer amount of shots he takes, the load he carries, all the thigns he does... Don't sit here and argue that since Francis rebounds better and shoot LESS than 2% better on HALF the amount of shots, that he's the better player. Don't even get me started on career numbers. You use Pierce's career numbers to compare him with Francis, failing to realize how much Pierce improved after his first two seasons, especially after his stabbings, while Francis has either failed to improve or arguably regressed during his time in the league. Career numbers are unfair when comparing those two. Just like it would be unfair to compare Iverson and Francis during their careers.
rocket's are not a catch and shoot team, so why did people in houston expect francis to get more then he did.....I don't understand that . can a francis basher please help me out?
How did Marbury average all those assists with Allan Houston out all the time? Are the Nets a catch and shoot team? None of them can shoot except for Kittles. How about Baron Davis? George Lynch, PJ Brown, Jamaal Magloire, and David Wesley.... Catch n shoot team of the year? i think not. Excuses excuses. The problem is not with his assists. This is for everyone: The problem is not with his assists, it's with his ratio. 6 assists is fine as long as you're not averaging 3+ turnovers.
"Marbury has been on teams with more talent EVERY season he's been in the league, and he loses badly almost EVERY season, while Francis only has losing seasons when he's hurt or a rookie. Take last year's Phoenix team, the only advantage the Rockets had against them was Yao, besides Francis of course, and they were miserable. Even the teams he was on in New Jersey were better in terms of talent but they were pathetic as well, while Francis with less talent won more in a much tougher conference. That isn't even close, forget stats when discussing Marbury, he'll ALWAYS have good stats because he cares about looking good FIRST, but in the end his teams always underpreform." It's interesting to see that Marbury's team always underperform. As a 19-year old, he led the T'Wolves to a 40-42 record while in the same divison as the Rockets (w/ Olajuwon, Barkley, and Drexler) and the Jazz. As a 20-year old, they got 45-37 and lost to the 2-seeded Lakers or Sonics, can't remember. He then gets traded to New Jersey. Stupid move, but KG never won a playoff series without him until they import two All-Stars in Cassel and Spree. His first two years in NJ the teams stunk. His last year in New Jersey the team featured him, Van Horn, and a rookie Kenyon Martin who missed 20 games with a broken leg. Kerry Kittles misses the entire year. He gets traded to Phoenix for Kidd, KMart gets healthy and has been in the L for a year, Kittles comes back, and they sign MacCulloch. It's a totally different team. His first year with Phoenix the team struggles under two different coaches. They get Amare in the lottery. His second year in Phoenix he leads them to a 44-38 record and single-handedly beats the Spurs in two games. They lose to the Spurs 4-2. The Spurs also lose only two games in each series for the rest of the playoffs (Nets, Lakers, and Mavs I believe). Last year with the Knicks they had an above-500 record while he was on the team. I'd wager money on the Knicks winning the Atlantic and making it to the Eastern Conf. Semi's at least this year, he finally has a team tailored to his strengths. I found this bizarre: "steve has not and has never been a selfish basketball player. people say he is" You just contradicted yourself, and Steve has been labeled quite often a selfish player. Pierce has had much better success in the playoffs than Francis had, even debating that is almost funny. He's ALMOST made the NBA Finals once, Francis has never been out of the first round. I'd say Pierce is the best, he puts up the best stats and has been the farthest. Then Brand, then Marbury/Francis are tied.
What were the Suns doing before they traded Marbury this past season. There is a reason he is on his fourth team.
Kevin Garnett LED that team, they didn't miss a beat they season after he left and was replaced with Terrell Brandon. He didn't win a playoff series with him either, they were never good enough until last year and don't forget why he left Minnesota. They were the EXACT same team that made the playoffs the year before, the only difference was replacing Sam Cassell with Marbury. Martin didn't miss 20 games, Kerry Kittles was a loss but it's not like he would of made that much of a difference. They only won 25 games, with him they win 30??? Two different coaches because he got one fired, they went from 50+ win team to not even winning 30 games all because they traded the best PG in the league for the most overrated. You give Jason Kidd, Sam Cassell, Mike Bibby, Steve Nash, Baron Davis, or Steve Francis that team and they win 50. That team was so loaded with talent that plenty of other PGs in the league would have a winning record too. Meh, he got lucky in the playoffs, . You WILL lose money!
First things first, I am Francis fan. I am not going to compare Steve with Pierce, Brand and A.I. b/c they play completely different positions and their roles on the teams are different. Pierce is clutch and knows how to carry his team, especially with that run to the Eastern Conf finals a few years back. Brand has put up impressive #'s but has won jack and don't tell me he has been on crappy teams, the clips have had plenty of talent: Andre Miller, Lamar Odom, on and on. A.I. was a great player and has probably the biggest heart in the game. He plays shooting guard and hoists up more shots than Steve so of course he is going to average more Pts. Even if steve played shooting guard I think A.I. is still a better scorer b/c he just has the knack for it. The only ones you can compare from that list IMO are Steve and Marbury. Yeah Marbury averages more pts and assts but does nothing for the team winning. If you take a look at both players winning % when they play for their respective teams I am pretty sure that Steve's is a lot higher. Every time Steve plays against Marbury, Steve's team wins. Marbury may average couple more pts and assts but Steve's team usually comes out on top and that's what matters more, right? As far you people saying that Steve is a whinner just like stephon? That's crap...Steve isn't arrogant and doesn't bash teamates, Steve had ONE incident last season over his 5 years here and he is a whinner? Yeah, he complains to the refs a lot but anyone who has played sports in competitive leagues know how that goes. And why isnt the king of controversy and unproffesionalism not mentioned as a whinner/complainer???? Mr. "we talkin bout practice, not the game I die for, practice"....that right, the and only A.I. Isn't this the first offseason he hasn't been arrested or been on the news for something ridiculous....ooops that right, he has over $3,000 in parking violiations in Greece for parking in handicap spaces. Please be fair people, don't cloud your hate for Steve with bullsh*t that isn't true. Let's make a list right now of all you haters, cause I don't wanna see you bandwagon and route for Steve when he is playing well in Magic land and Orlando is in the playoffs competing in the East. I don't wanna hear: "oh, it's just the JV Eastern Conference" B/c you didn't use that argument when defending Paul Pierce & A.I. So, if you're a hatter, just reply with a simple :" I am a steve hater" and I'll start a list. Thanks. Peace.
