I thought it was funny too. The times when it mattered the poster was right, Wade was not facing a double team, he was facing a quadrouple team. And he still made the plays. In my opinion you sub Wade for any other player in the league and the Heat do not win the title. The Heat were not that talented. Shaq is a shadow of his former self--a good player but no longer a great one. They basically took a rag tag group of vets of little value to other teams and won the title on the back of Wade. Remember Walker a few years ago did as much help as damage for Dallas. Posey wasn't even matched by us for an MLE. JW was considered a marginal, erratic, player with a bad contract. Haslem is a decent role player, but well below an average starting PF and was injured for the finals. GP had 40 year old skills within an arrogant head and who noone else wanted. Zo had done little since playing on 1 kidney. Except for Wade, they were vastly outclassed in depth and talent to Detroit and the Mavs. Here are some facts. Here are the on court/off court statistics for the Heat. REGULAR SEASON: Wade +15.8 Zo +7.1 Shaq + 6.4 Haslem +3.7 JWill +3.0 JPos +2.7 AWal -2.1 GP -3.0 PLAYOFFS Wade +21.8 Zo +11.3 Shaq -6.9 Haslem -11.3 JWill -10.7 JPos +10.4 AWal +0.6 GP -1.0 If if wasn't obvious enough watching the games it isn't Wade's team, and you didn't take Shaq's word for it that is was Wade's team, the figures show it clearly. Again, Shaq actually had a very negative effect on the court in the Dallas series because when they tried to go to him (a lot until late in game 3 when Riley finally figured it out Wade had to be their offense, and Walker was actually the next best option versus the kind of defense Dallas showed) was when Dallas got their runs. It is hard to believe we are having this debate. Wade's playoff performance was without question the most outstanding by a guard since Jordan. 28PPG 6RPG 6APG 2SPG 1.1BPG on 50% from the field (including 3s) and an even more sick 1.48 points per shot as the primary option (it wasn't like he was playing with a Shaq in his prime to suck the defense). Not to mention making the game clinching plays consistently. And by the way his regular season stats were just as good, as the key option, not a second fiddle. He is a true superstar, a clutch superstar, and one who gets his teammates to play better and harder. Lebron is the only other young wing we can say that about, and he didn't get out of the 2nd round (though he got his team past the 1st round and pretty close to the conference finals his 1st try, a major credit to him as well).
no one is saying that he didn't have a great playoffs, and series against dallas. I just can't put him in lebron and kobe's league as far as individual talent, kobe and lebron are both better ball handlers, kobe my not get as many assists but both have better assists turnover ratios, both are better outside shooters. both are better playmakers in my opinion. wade is a great athlete playing basketball. he is a leader and he is clutch. I think the best thing he does is plays within his limitations. he can't shoot from outside 15 that well so he doesn't. he allows his point guards to handle the ball.
OK, so maybe Kobe and Lebron beat him on one on one. In some ways their inidividual skills may be better. But I can't see a single coach wanting to build his team around Kobe or Tmac over Wade. And by the way Wade (regular season) is ahead of Kobe in about every stat but 3 point shooting and total points per game. Lebron is ahead of Wade in most stats. However Wade is a more efficient scoring playing (PPS) than him however 1.44 to 1.36 (Wade has more steals too). I think Wade would have scored more than Lebron if they played the same styles. Now I am not really about to knock Lebron. I am not sure if Wade is the better player for a basketball team. There is a case either way. But I think both are ahead of Kobe, or Tmac, for that matter, as a team basketball player. In their young careers they have already shown more leadership in the role of being THE GUY during the real season (playoffs). Wade carried a team with generally much inferior talent than his competitors (Nets/Pistons/Mavs) all the way to the finals trophy, that is very select company of NBAers who have done that. Lebron in his 1st playoffs got basically another rag tag outfit of players on the cusp of knocking off the 2 time EC champs in the 2nd round.
I agree with almost everything you said here. The key is individual talent isn't the measure of a great player, it's what he does with it. Nobody in the NBA (maybe ever) is more talented than Tracy. His skills are sick. But Kobe is a better player. Wade has talent and with his brain he uses that talent to the max. This is what counts. Kobe's skillset is better than Jordan's was because of his outside shooting. But MJ was the greater player for a lot of reasons. Wade is not just a great athlete playing basketball, he is a great basketball player who knows how to use his athleticism and talent. Wade shot some long shots in the finals, though that isn't his specialty. Despite that, he can still get off a good shot whenever he wants to. Now all he needs to do is cut down those turnovers.
how can people say melo is overrated? he is destroying teams in fiba while being on a team of superstars. he has never made an all-star team. he averaged 26 ppg (going to rise very soon). both kobe and tracy has admitted that he is the hardest player to guard in the L. and most importantly, he is THE most clutch player in the league right now. 2006-2007 will be melo's year.
What's to explain? When it comes to skillset (which I explained before doesn't mean much), Tracy can do it all. Problem is, that doesn't make him the best player. He can go right, finish right; go left, finish left. He can drive either way and pull up, all the way back to the 3pt line. He can pass and has great court vision. He can handle the ball extremely well. He is quick enough to get around anyone near his size and a smaller man has little chance to stop him. On defense, he can make life miserable for opponents when he wants to. Athletically he is (or was, if you please) so gifted it's insane. His combination of athleticism, skills and court vision is unparalleled. Tracy is so gifted he makes the game look easier than anyone I've ever seen play. Tracy CAN do all these things. His skillset is unmatched. But what does he actually do on the court? When you compare him to the best players of today, he is one of the best, but he doesn't get the most out of his abilities. One thing that has plagued him throughout his career is shot selection. He bails out the defender way too much. If you put Wade's brain into Tracy's body, you could be talking the G.O.A.T. type of player. Hope that makes it plain. The debate on this thread was how Wade was overrated. Then one poster altered the subject a bit to skillset. Skillset is only part of how good a player is. When you compare Tracy vs. Wade or Kobe, that becomes crystal clear. Another good example is comparing Kobe to MJ.
Melo is a good player...but so was Glenn Robinson when he was at his peak in Milwaukee. McGrady has one of the best skillset but what good is it if he's injured for big chunks of the season? It's like saying you got a Porsche 911 Turbo but the intercooler is busted.
shot way too much? throw out the Washington years and his shooting percentage is outstanding for a guard...
Because Wade accomplishes more with less talent, he's somehow overhyped? "Individual talent" doesn't mean a thing when you drop ridiculous numbers in the NBA finals and lead your team to a ring. If anything, Kobe's the one who's overhyped. He's the one with the better skillset, yet he can't accomplish the things that Wade has.
dare you start a new thread and make your arguments....., you'd be killed man. go back and just watch the game. shee!
Carmelo Anthony is one of the most polished offensive players in the league. He can go outside, take you off the dribble and has some of the best post moves in the league. His weaknesses are defense, intensity and passing. The kid can just plain ball. He is not lebron but nobody is and he doesn't have the luck of playing with 4 good to great post players like Wade does. However, I can't of a player that can score with the versatility that he does.
Camelo is underrated because of his off the court issues. Look at how hard he has obviously worked in the offseason. I see a player who is already super talented and wants to get to the next level. He also had an oustanding season last year. he is a ompletely different player then Glen Rice. Their games don't even compare. Robinson, yes, but he only failed because of his attitude and pathetic work ethic. carmelo seems to be showing the exact opposite (especially in the World Championships). Anyone undermining Wade's talent doesn't watch basketball. He carried the Heat before Shaq even got there. Wade is a superstar. TMac is not the best player in the NBA.Nothing he's done justifies that comment
None of those players have the post moves Melo has. Melo can take anyone in the post single covered. He can post from both sides of the basket, can spin in either direction, and can finish with both hands.
