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How Do You Not Have Tari In At End Of Games???

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Imanimal, Nov 24, 2024.

  1. Arnel

    Arnel Member

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    go to sleep
     
  2. Hemingway

    Hemingway Member
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    didnt jalen and fvv suck as well? How come it applies to Tari but not fvv, jalen, or brooks who all sucked. having Tari's defense in the game wouldve made a difference
     
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  3. Hemingway

    Hemingway Member
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    Ime is just stubborn about his vets. just like last year the young guys and unnecessary losses will force his hand (or injuries). There is not another team in the league that would be using Amen off the bench.
     
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  4. AroundTheWorld

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    And then you woke up lol. Sengun didn't "get targeted". He committed one foul in the last two minutes, the guy missed both free throws.

    Anyway - Tari > Bari.
     
  5. Hemingway

    Hemingway Member
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    bari wasnt the problem. You just don't like him.
     
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  6. mac_got_this

    mac_got_this Member

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    The whole closing with the hot hand thing is getting tiresome. The hornets coach just got heavily criticized for that in Charlotte when he did it with Tre Mann over LaMelo and the Hornets lost. Ime. Needs to stop That. Put your 5 best on the floor and roll with it.
    You know how many bad games harden or Ego had. They almost never finished the game on the bench. It shows a lack of trust in your key players
     
  7. Arnel

    Arnel Member

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    Tari is better than Bari, and also Bari didn’t do anything wrong defensively in the last two minutes and all of their points were basically on Sengun.
     
  8. AroundTheWorld

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    yes
    yes
    absolutely not
     
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  9. glimmertwins

    glimmertwins Member

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    The tape is the tape - you can watch each of those plays in the play by play section on NBA.com. In the last 2:15 Sengun had two fouls, got blocked, got beat to the hoop on a Simons layup, and gave up a 3 to Simons...and to fill that out he also hit a post shot, had an assist, and a missed post shot.

    I don't want to overanalyze it because I agree that he should have been out there - I mean, how do we score otherwise? I don't think Sengun was necessarily bad defensively in any of those plays - he did what he could but I think the poster you are arguing with IS right that when Portland needed two buckets at the end of the game, they chose a high pick and rolls designed to expose Sengun's ability to guard Simons in space and both plays were successful and that ended up being the difference in a tough game.

    This is the design flaw with Sengun as your best scoring option that I refer to when talking about the long term upside of the Rockets in playoff series against high level teams. He is greatly improved defensively but he is still a liability against the best scoring guards in space and doesn't have quite the length that Jokic does to make up for the lack of foot speed....and yes, this is 2 minutes of one game in a long season but I think the point here is in the playoffs, teams will try to do that 20+ times when Sengun is on the court. Houston does what they can to hide Sengun, but his ability to cover screen and rolls is going to problematic so you need the ability to shift to a defensive focused rotation without taking ALL of your scoring options off the court. Additionally, I know you are into analytics so I don't have to tell you that trading 3s for 2s is also problematic in a close game down the stretch - that's another problem when Sengun is your best scoring option if he only takes 3s as a last resort. Part of what makes Jokic dominant is he can make a play anywhere on the court - not just in the paint so Sengun has to improve there OR we need to supplement him with legit 3 range scoring help. That's why we need to prioritize a high level guard/wing scorer who can get a bucket. Jalen really should have been that guy - he can create space to get those shots....but he is sooo bad at finishing the play.
     
    #29 glimmertwins, Nov 26, 2024
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2024
  10. AroundTheWorld

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    A long post with a lot of true statements, but the actual problem comes at the end of the post.
     
  11. glimmertwins

    glimmertwins Member

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    The root problem is when your very best player needs to be on the bench at the end of tight games when you are protecting a lead. The ideal version of Jalen means he is actually your most valuable player - not Sengun.

    By the way, this is kind of like the old Shaq/Kobe thing - Shaq was the most dominant player in his era but he also had to sit at the end of tight games because of the poor FT shooting and because of the inability to guard in space. Kobe wasn't quite as dominant as Shaq at the time but he was more valuable because he was on the court making plays to close out games. That's why there such mixed feelings about when they split from people who didn't understand that nuance.
     
  12. AroundTheWorld

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    Alpi is not Shaq. Alpi does not need to be on the bench. He is one of the five best defenders on the team.
     
  13. glimmertwins

    glimmertwins Member

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    Absolutely not.

    Tari, Amen, Dillon, Bari, Fred, and Tate are all better. You aren't playing Sengun at the end of games because he is great defensively, you are playing him because this team has no other scoring and playmaking options. That's contextual to this team roster at this moment.
     
    #33 glimmertwins, Nov 26, 2024
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2024
  14. AroundTheWorld

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    True, he is one of the best in the league, not just on the team.

    [​IMG]

    upload_2024-11-26_11-44-17.png

    [​IMG]
     
  15. glimmertwins

    glimmertwins Member

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    Nope.

    Here are more truths - that is a misuse of stats and you know it. You know for a fact that is wrong because there is NO WAY that Alp is a better defender than Amen. You KNOW that! That is definitely a reflection of the players who get the lions share of minutes on the best defensive teams(of which Houston, OKC, Magic, and GSW are the best) but you know he isn't the 5th best defender in the NBA. You expose yourself as a stan when you make silly arguments like this.

    Come on man - I expect better. Look at the list - which do you think is more likely:
    - that Houston, OKC, ORL, and GSW happen to have the 18 of the top 23 defenders in the league (and Sengun is the 5th best)?
    - or that this stat is weighting heavily players on good team defenses and doesn't really speak to individual defensive abilities as much as you think it does?

    ....again not to say Sengun doesn't play a critical role on this defense but as I have said before, the defense is literally built around how everyone can hide Sengun from the point of attack and Sengun is tasked with rebounding the misses others force(and he is doing a WONDERFUL job in that role as evidence by his rating here which is likely reflecting his role in the defensive scheme).....but if you use any common sense and watch games you know that Sengun is not the 2nd best defender on this team or the 5th best defender in the league or whatever confirmation bias you are leaning hard into.

    Be better.
     
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  16. AroundTheWorld

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    lol

    You were denying that he is one of the 5 best defenders on the team. Who do you think is better?

    Also, Alpi often lets someone like Jalen get "free rebounds" when Alpi is near and could have had it himself. Jalen almost only gets uncontested ones.
     
  17. glimmertwins

    glimmertwins Member

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    Why are you LOLing to obvious proof your stats don't tell the story you think it does? Speak to the point - you KNOW that 18 of the best defenders in the league don't happen to play for the 4 best league defenses so far in this short season. The metric doesn't tell the story you think it does and that is obvious but you keep acting like "LOL".

    I already said above Tari, Amen, Dillon, Bari, Fred, and Tate are all better defenders than Sengun. Not sure about Adams - can't tell if he is still playing his way into shape or if Adams has started to decline but the old Steven Adams was also better defender than Sengun but definitely think Sengun has been wayyy better than Adams this year and has been better than Landale too.

    ....also not even sure what you are saying about the rebounding comments. I'm not a stan like you so I could care less about whether Jalen or Alpi gets a stat. I'm not trying to distort statistical measures for the sake of confirmation bias.
     
  18. AroundTheWorld

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    Bari is not a better defender than Sengun. Tate is a nice guy, but there is literally nothing he is better at than Sengun.
     
  19. Imanimal

    Imanimal Member

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    Absolutely! There are a few players with a competitive edge at ends of games and they are easy to spot if you watch the last 500 Rockets games as I have. Trust me, Jabrari is not one of those guys. Top of my head, three guys must be on the floor at ends of games: Amen (shocked at how this poor shooter elevates his game when the pressure increases….very pleasant surprise!), FVV….in Toronto was nicknamed “Steady Freddie” for his clutch shots, and lastly Eason as this man’s desire to win is unmatched and he could care less about how big the moment is and the pressure that goes along with it.
    I could care less who else is out on the floor at crunch time, but these three need to be there or expect more losses like the Milwaukee and Portland games where Eason sat and watched Jabrari finish those games.
     
  20. glimmertwins

    glimmertwins Member

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    Bari gets a better contest on that Simmons 3 in the last game because he doesn't have to give the defender so much space on the pick....do you actually watch these games? I mean Bari is soft for sure, but he is still a better all around defender than Sengun and likely defends all those possessions at the end of the Portland game better. But you don't have to take my word for it - Chauncy Billups and the Portland team agrees with you - that's why they exclusively targeted Sengun to end the game and also why they won the game. But you don't have to take Billup's word for it - Udoka had Alpi playing Camarra because he was the weakest offensive player out there to close the game. Both coaches agreed on the who the weakest defender was out there for Houston.

    ...look man - Sengun is vastly improved defensively and this is a vastly improved defense overall - I see that for sure. But that doesn't mean Alpi is some savant out there. You are embarrassing yourself by continuing to double down on that narrative despite overwhelming proof to the contrary - it's okay to say you are wrong and agree he is improved but maybe not the 2nd best defender on the team like how you just tried to pass off. He's above average for sure, but he's still a weak link and if you think Anfernee Simmons just got lucky, I would hate to see how lucky SGA gets in a 7 game series with Alpi on the court as the statistical 2nd best defender according to your stats. Again, be better. If I'm wrong, I'll own it - but you sure as hell also better own your own hyperbole when it is at odds with the facts.
     

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