How do you feel about acquiring T-mac 4 years ago, and how do you feel about him now

OK!
1st - We comparing SF in Year 3,4,5 [only 2 years with Yao . .which were Yao's year 1 and 2]
VERSUS - TMac in yr 8,9,10,11 with YAO Yr 3,4,5,6

QUESTION: Is Yao in Yr 3,4,5,6 better than Yao in yr 1,2?
Yao's 1st two years in the league folx were trying run over him.
Better Yao: ADVANTAGE T-MAC

2nd
Steve 1st trip to the Playoffs he loses to a Laker Team that had 4 HOFers
Even if they were in decline they would have WIPED THE FRICKING FLOOR WITH
The Dallas team we lost too and BOTH JAZZ Team we lost too
and the Steve Francis Team didn't get BLOWN OUT BY 40 PTs [laughing on the bench]
The Dallas Team went to the NBA Finals so that was no slouch but those Jazz Teams didn't get that far. Looking for the Box Scores from the Laker Series
SHOULD HAVE WON GAME 1 . . .
Inferior Opponents: ADVANTAGE T-MAC

Always below 40%
Strange . .. Let's See what Clutch has for us
99/00 Season - 44.44 [34.52 - 3ptr]
00/01 Season - 45.12 [39.58 - 3ptr]
01/02 Season - 41.71 [32.38 - 3ptr]
02/03 Season - 43.49 [35.42 - 3ptr]
03/04 Season - 40.29 [29.20 - 3ptr]

____________________________________________
NOW for T-mac
04/05 Season - 43.07 [32.64 - 3ptr]
05/06 Season - 40.55 [31.20 - 3ptr]
06/07 Season - 42.77 [32.45 - 3ptr]
07/08 Season - 41.98 [28.53 - 3ptr]

WHOA!!! STOP THE PRESSES . . .
TMAC is WWWAAYYYY Better Percentages!!

Let's Look at Yao's Field goal Attempts
02/03 Season - 805
03/04 Season - 1,025

____________________________________________
NOW for T-mac
04/05 Season - 975
05/06 Season - 900
06/07 Season - 944
07/08 Season - 852

D*mn . . .Seems like Yao gets more shots with Steve are was
moving in that direction .. so you lying about that too

Rocket River
Mythology . . . MEH!

 

ummmm you do realize those are season total right? And how many games have Yao missed since the trade??

Please go back and actually read my post.

 

Yao missing games Affects T-Mac's percentages . . I got ya
I understand

Rocket River

 

oh crap my bad, sorry I am blind

Anyways I said Francis always been in the low 40%

and I still don't get why you compared TMAC's FGA after the trade and Yao's FGA before the trade.

 

Let's Look at one more thing

Yao - Minutes per game
02/03 Season - 29.1
03/04 Season - 32.9
____________________________________________
NOW for T-mac
04/05 Season - 30.6
05/06 Season - 34.2
06/07 Season - 34.3
07/08 Season - 37.2

I wanted to check this
because I recall during his 1st two years
1. Yao got winded rather easily
2. Yao was a foul waiting to happen
which IMO kind of balances your injury issue
T-Mac gets more QUALITY minutes out of Yao
than the Francis Era Yao . . . .

You can dismiss this. . but I think alot of
people remember that clearly

Rocket River

 

All the FGA are Yao's

those ones that SAY NOW FOR TMAC
shows that Yao did not get significantly more Shots
with TMAC than with SF
In fact. . He got his most Shoots with SF[03/04 Season - 1,025]
. . not TMAC [His high with TMAC is 04/05 Season - 975 ]

Rocket River

 

Also you fail to see the huge drop in Steve's production, once JVG decided that Yao was going to be the central focus of the team.

If you want to talk stats then look at Francis's production between Yao's first year and 2nd. Yao was clearly better in his second year right? And the Rockets clearly was a better team. If Steve fit in a system with Yao as the first option then how come his stats was much worse, I mean a improved Yao should have made the game easier for Steve right? Then come his game was clearly in the decline once Yao started been the Rocket's first option?

And during that playoff series the only reason Steve did well was because he was up against a old and slow Gary Payton and if you remember every single guard who went up against Payton during the playoff that year destroyed him, and I don't care if you think that we should have won game 1, because in the end we still lost. And did that hall of fame team win a title?

No Steve never got beat by 40 in game 7 of a playoff series and laugh on the bench, funny you can say that when he has never played a game 7 before.

Kinda like how TMAC never got suspended for a game because he went to watch the super bowl when the rest of his teammates got on a flight to go play a game.

Yea sure Steve played with the game with a lot of heart nobody can question that, but Steve also played like he was on the and1 mixtape tour.

Francis flourished best when he had the ball and could run, that style might be entertaining but it just does win ball games. While TMAC was better suited to play in a half court game, something Yao definitely dominates in.

 

The only vintage T-Mac year was the first year we got him, after that injuries completely changed him IMO. He's not the same scorer or defender(remember he shut down Dirk), but is a better playmaker.

 

Yea he did have lower FGA in his first year with TMAC, but he also shot in a higher % and scored more while playing in less minutes. And after that year Yao's FGA per game significantly increase as he was able to play more and more minutes.

Remember how Steve would always dribble out the shot clock only to put up a contested jump shot when he was here? Do you really think you can win with that kind of style? Why did you think Orlando traded him for a expiring contract after 1 season?

 

RR,

TMac is indeed a low % shooter (chucks too many jumpers) and Steve is actually better in comparison (though his scoring efficientcy is not great, either).

However, here's one % that clearly favors TMac:

Turnover %-- measuring how often a guy turns the ball over relative his touches and production.

Tracy McGrady: 9.9% for career.
Steve Francis: 17.2% for career.

That's a lot less possessions you are losing to TOs with McGrady. Yes, he takes some bad shots, but a bad shot hurts you less than a T/O generally.

 

again how can you predict what francis would do if he had stayed? dude is a nobody since he's traded from houston. you can't predict the future.

you won't know how yao would have done with francis. JVG and francis never got along. if they had stayed together, it's inevitable francis would be gone.

 

I may not agree with a lot of what you say here but I too have become disenchanted with Tmac - not that I ever was all that atwitter over his signing because I felt then (and still do now) that the entire premise behind that trade was faulty and unrealistic. You will recall that the ultimate success or failure of that trade hinged on the Rockets' ability to "surround" Tmac & Yao with the right "role-players". In essence, it all boiled down to a GM who hadn't been able to come close to doing anything remotely close to that in a decade.

At the time the consensus here was that this would be a virtual certainty. So here we are 4 years later and nothing much has changed. They may no longer be a consistent lotto team anymore but they replaced that with being a one-and-done playoff team. It's really the same thing just at a slightly higher level. In the end, Tmac's arrival here hasn't come close to elevating this team's fortunes in the West and there's nothing that points to things being different in the future with Tmac as it appears that he is clearly on the decline.

 

Exactly
For all the T-Mac made us better Talk
If so . . .not that significantly

My contention was that the team with SF was growing and gelling
was getting better and better.
we made the playoffs . .. and i was positive we would the next year too
So . .. when we made the playoffs with TMAC I was kind of like . ..well that was expected . .. even if SF stayed!

So . . .making the playoffs was a goal accomplished under the SF ERA
and continued in the T-Mac era
beyond that . . .what has changed
SF's Playoff Team was an EXTREME UNDERDOG against those Lakers
[Favorite to roll through the playoffs to a championship]
T-Mac's team was Favored against the 1st Jazz team [had the better record both years I beleive] and were suppose to contend with the Dallas Team
and we faltered all three times

I just don't see this LEAPS AND BOUNDS better that people are stating they seeing

Rocket River
Marginal at best increase

 

if you watched that entire playoffs for the lakers, they weren't that invincible. gary payton and karl malone struggled. kobe had arguably his worst playoff performance that year of his career. shaq was the only consistent force. they were the underdog b/c well, they just were. that team was never considered or remotely close to being considered a championship contender.

ever since tmac has arrived, we've been considered the dark horse to win IF WE STAYED HEALTHY. we never have stayed healthy outside of 04-05 (which even you have to admit we should have gone far if not for the refs). health is the problem. with tmac, we're not thinking about the playoffs, but going deep. yes we haven't gone deep, but injuries have played a big part.

do you mean to tell me if yao stayed healthy, or hell just rafer, we wouldn't have beaten the jazz? WE HAD 2 STARTERS OUT in the playoffs. that's something that you're not taking into consideration.

we made the playoffs 2 games behind the first seed lakers WITHOUT YAO FOR THE LAST 32 GAMES of the season.

 

03-04, 04-05 Physical Tmac + Today's Tmac's IQ= wayyyyy better than Kobe.

Its really a shame, even though there is still hope for a 100% tmac, because he would have been an amazing, amazing player right now.

It really pisses me off when people rip on tmac, because even now he is a really damn good player. I mean 27/8/7..(tmac's last playoff averages)....how can someone really say that he isn't still one of the best overall players in the league. And the fact that he needed constant painkiller injections and still managed to play that well, and people still call him a p***y.

 

I consider that
I mean we should have went further
but
We didn't and I personally think we would have went further by now
without the trade. . . just my opinion.

Rocket River

 

Kobe
Shaq
Phil
ROBERT HORRY?

 

Francis averaged nearly a triple double for that series, 19/7/7. That was the highest point of his career as it looked like Steve finally turned the corner and was getting on the level of Superstars like a Kobe or T-Mac. Of course, he got traded and his career went downhill from there.

 

People have forgotten the chemistry Steve and Cuttino had,
we've haven't had that type of guard chemistry here in along time.

However history showed us that the winning combination at guard that went to the 2nd round was SAM CASSELL and CUTTINO MOBLEY

Steve + [non-Cuttino] has not worked

 

malone
payton