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How do we defend against quick point guard dribble penetration?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by NewYorker, Mar 26, 2007.

  1. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Well, if we are not going to play V-Span who is agruably the best perimeter defender, then play a zone.

    DD
     
  2. richirich

    richirich Member

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    Maybe JVG was kidding in December when he complimented Vspan for shutting down that no good low rate slow POC guard named ...... Gilbert Arenas.

    And he hasn't played much since then.

    One more month of JVG.....

    Singin' in the rain, I'm singin' in the rain!
     
  3. Fuse

    Fuse Member

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    Rafer plays decent team defense, but is really not a terribly good man to man defender. Faster guards outpace him, and then larger guards over power him. There really isn't much middle ground.
     
  4. Fuse

    Fuse Member

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    Zones are ineffective against good perimeter teams. Yesterday. New Orleans was shooting out of their minds. As A3PO mentioned in another thread, CP3's 3 point prowess last night was an anomaly.
     
  5. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Not as a full time defense but as something to throw off their rythmn.....and it does stop the rotation problem of covering up for Rafer as his man blows by him again and again

    DD
     
  6. mac_got_this

    mac_got_this Member

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    Watch tapes of how we defned Tony PArker. We've done a masterful job of putting the clamps on him and he's the best pg in the leaguei imo not named nash. HE's definitely the best penetrating pg in the game. If we can contain him, we can can contain the other guards.
     
  7. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

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    I should have mentioned that Snyder shut down Pargo. Take away that 3-3 spurt against Luther, Pargo went 0-5. But Snyder isn't quick enough to stay close to Paul. Even extremely quick NBA players can't keep up with Paul. When his shot is on the guy is all-NBA. If he comes back next season with a consistent deadeye outside shot, I will change my mind about him and Deron Williams. But Paul's outside shot is very inconsistent and has a long way to go.
     
  8. Patience

    Patience Member

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    So you are hoping for failure in the playoffs? Way to be a Rockets fan...
     
  9. Sishir Chang

    Sishir Chang Member

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    It seems to me that the Rox going all the way back to the Steve Francis years have had trouble with fast point guards.

    In college there is a "Box and one" defense that is a zone defense with one guy playing man to man who's job is to stick to the opponents best player. I don't know the NBA rules well enough but if the Rox could do that that might help them deal with fast point guards.
     
  10. weslinder

    weslinder Member

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    A box-and-one is definitely a legal defense. The Suns run it sometimes. When zones were still illegal, San Antonio ran it (and a 1-2-2) and usually got by with it. It's only effective at handling penetration when the player you are covering man-to-man is the opposing teams main penetrator.
     
  11. texanskan

    texanskan Member

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    lol, when I opened this thread I thought I would get through atleast 5 replys till I saw "play v-span"
     
  12. weslinder

    weslinder Member

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    The Rockets just need someone who is good at going under the screener. What do you think it'd take to get Hinrich away from the Bulls? :D
     
  13. mac_got_this

    mac_got_this Member

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    w/e happened ot us giving Jay WIlliams a tryout?
     
  14. DonkeyMagic

    DonkeyMagic Member
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    you cant stop guys like chris paul (thankfully there arent that many like he)...you just hope he has an off game.
     
  15. EssTooKayTD

    EssTooKayTD Member

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    You guys know perimeter defense is even tougher these days. Touch fouls tip the scales very much in the way of the aggressor. That's like asking someone to stop T-Mac night in and out. You can't...you just have to hope they don't go off for 30-40+. CP3 had a great game, give credit where credit is due. These guys are "stars" for a reason, b/c they can get around anyone *and* get the calls from the reputation they've earned on the court. Rafer did a good of a job as anyone could have on the guy, and on the other side of the ball, dude had ZERO turnovers. As said sooo many times here, you take the good with the bad.

    Also, they way I understand our defense is this: We lock down the middle, and contest outside shots. We force them to take outside shots, as that is a lower percentage shot. If they make all night, nothing you can do. i.e. they "give up" the outside shot in order to not give up layups and post scores. Well that's the game plan as I understand it.

    edit: spelling
     
    #35 EssTooKayTD, Mar 26, 2007
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2007
  16. aamir

    aamir Member

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    Couple things I see a need to work on:

    1) Screens -- this one is obvious. Rafer is getting a little better, but still weak, and Luther is horrendous. I don't see them ever fixing the problem, but as a team, we shouldn't have a problem. If you watch Shane in plays where his man gives the screen, he takes a big step in the direction of the opposing guard, which freezes him for a half-second and usually gives enough time for Rafer to recover (Luther, amazingly, still has trouble getting away from the screen). Chucky does this too, but often jumps too far out and doesn't stifle the opposing guard. Working on this would do wonders.

    2) Rotation -- we saw how much of a problem this was in the last Phoenix game. Fixing this would also greatly help against speedier players. Playing a zone, imo, throws off too much of our defensive strengths since we are not a particularly fast nor long armed team, but a good rotation should be more than enough. If the guards get past Rafer, stop him around the foul line, if he goes even further, then stop him at the basket. We just can't allow teams to expose our help defense, because that can lead to easy baskets with any decent PG.
     
  17. Rockets2K

    Rockets2K Clutch Crew

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    quoted for sound reasoning, spot on imo

    as for others....

    1) richrich

    I guess you need to find a different team to root for, cause I'e be willing to put money on VG being the coach next year....I'm almost 95% sure.

    ignore the scuttlebutt around here about the extension meaning jack, cause it dont....the brass said they didnt want to bother with it during the season, I believe them.

    I doubt very seriously they can the guy that has the Rockets top2 in defense almost every year he has been here....without the injuries last year and this, the Rockets would be MUCH further along in their playoff development than they are.

    2) Vspan vs Paul/Pargo

    LAWL!!!

    you gotta be kidding me, Span has shown no improvement over Rafer on the high PnR and I certainly doubt he would have been anymore effective since it was our help defense on the high PnR that was killing us late in the game.

    NY,
    props to ya man...I honestly didnt expect you to modify your statements re: blame for coverage of Paul when we discussed it in chat.

    it's a good thread if it gets folks to look a little deeper into the failings of our PnR help defense and quite being so simplistic in their analysis of who was to blame.

    on a final note....DAMN but that Paul guy is gonna be somthing else in another year or two....matter of fact, that entire Hornets team has got some damn nice pieces, and we can but hope they never play up to their potential.
     
  18. BEXCELANT

    BEXCELANT Member

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    It's easy, put V-Span in with instructions not to shoot unless he has an easy lane to the bucket. Also tell him not to make stupid passes and that he's in primarily to play defense.
     
  19. Riz

    Riz Member

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    Will never work! Rafer's job is not only bring the ball up and give it to tmac, he is there to make plays and he is good at it!! also thats the difference between snyder and rafer and also mike james for those of you who'd rather have mike james and destroy the team chemistry! yes rafer shoots horrible but everything else he does as a PG is above average! and about guarding Chris Paul from last nights game he is one the best players out there and he has the capability to get on fire as we all witnessed! no matter how much defense you play against these kind of player when they're hot they will shoot over you! just ask Battier!!! so it wasn't totally Rafers fault! its like asking Battier to guard KG or Dirk or any other great players when they're hot on the court!
     
  20. Yaozer

    Yaozer Member

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    We need cheap, dirty players like the Mavs and Suns. Stackhouse and Bell would tackle Paul mercilessly. Forget zone defense. :D
     

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