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How come Dubai and Qatar do not seem to have to worry about terror?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by AroundTheWorld, Dec 2, 2010.

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  1. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    Because you're acting like no one has said anything since you started this thread.

    1) Ofcourse there are potential terror attacks in the UAE. Like all countries lol Again, I told you there were bomb parcels sent to Dubai from Yemen through UPS but they were stopped. Same people who sent the parcel to Ms Merkel. It happens. Soldiers from the UAE are fighting alongside the forces in Afghanistan. Did you know that?

    2) There are tons of Muslims and even more Arabs in Brazil, how is that an indication of anything? Btw, Muslims don't use the word Islamist lol. It would never say "Islamist organization" anywhere hahaha

    The evidence in that link seems silly honestly. Al Qaeda members pass through Brazil, Argentina, Germany, the US, the UK, everywhere routinely. Some even live in those places. That's because Al Qaeda is not Arab and it's not Afghani. It's an ideology, and that's IMO exactly why the US presence in Afghanistan is not successfully reducing the presence of Al Qaeda worldwide. It was Afghanistan, and now it's Pakistan, Yemen, Sudan, etc. They'll just move. It's hard to stop these people because they represent something that's not a country and not a race - therefore racial profiling and passport control will also ultimately fail IMO.

    I always ask myself how I could possibly know if someone is Al Qaeda or not unless they flat out tell me. I can know that they are ultra conservative, but how would I know that they are members of Al Qaeda? That scares me honestly.

    As for the UAE, I'm more worried about the Iranians frankly, and even that is not a huge deal. I think the government will change dramatically for the better before Iran is a serious threat to anyone in the region.
     
  2. AroundTheWorld

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    Well you are not the only one whom this scares...
     
  3. Rocketman1981

    Rocketman1981 Member

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZF4_oaTIH8g&feature=related


    These Al-Queda nutjobs don't give a damn about freedom, alcohol
    or gays etc.

    They despise the fact that we have troops in their lands and that we
    support Israel.

    That is it. Bin Laden in a Video said Ex CIA Bin Laden Head said it correctly and he's interviewed in the above video.
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    Was watching a documentary and remembered this thread.

    One of the reasons Dubai and Qatar are less terror-prone is that they have faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar less of this going on in mosques when compared to Western Europe:

    <embed id=VideoPlayback src=http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=2515587181120245843&hl=en&fs=true style=width:400px;height:326px allowFullScreen=true allowScriptAccess=always type=application/x-shockwave-flash> </embed>

    Sickening. Why is the UK incapable of keeping this stuff safe and in some semblance of civility?

    It's no wonder when Europeans come to Dubai they fear mosques more than prison lol.

    I urge you to watch the video and see what kind of filth is being spewed in the UK by these people. The authorities are either ignorant or incompetent, and the hate preachers are just lying straight up.
     
  5. AroundTheWorld

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    Thank you for posting this. Maybe that helps to understand why someone's perception in Europe might be different than in the USA.
     
  6. trustme

    trustme Member

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    I just watched the first 20 minutes. You seriously don't think ANY of that was taken out of context? Do you really believe the word "kafir/kuffar" is an insulting term? I thought it just meant "disbeliever" or "non-Muslim" which would be the correct term in Arabic right?

    Some of the stuff they were saying, I disagree with it. But most of the things seemed to be taken straight out of context, making it sound MUCH worse than it seems.
     
  7. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    I can't see where it's taken out of context.

    But even if only 10% is true, it's 10% too much.

    These are large religious establishments in London.

    Watch the rest. Wait for the guy who screams "WE HATE THE KAFFIRS. WE DO NOT LOVE THE KAFFIRS. NO MUSLIM LOVES A KAFFIR."

    Insane.

    Or when Sheikh Feiz is on about how Jews will turn into pigs.

    or when they say a woman is deficient even if she holds a PhD. How ironic that the person saying it doesn't realize men are also deficient by definition of being human. Even the word INSAAN, which means human, refers to a deficiency.

    What about the guy who says we beat 10 year olds who refuse the hijab.

    What about the guy who says Muslims must live like a state within a state.

    What about the guy who says flat out says Muslims are meant to brainwash others.

    The guy that says outright that women and men are not equal in rights.

    The guy that says women must follow everything that men do.

    These are big establishments, with big following. Saying any one of these sentences in a Dubai mosque would get you removed from the mosque. I expect the same treatment in England wrt hate speech.

    One of the sheikhs in there, Sheikh Feiz, is Australian and has fled to Lebanon following his comments that women have themselves to blame if they dress skimpily and get raped.

    How much are you willing to tolerate before you realize that the imams are ass-backwards morons?

    These are not isolated incidents. Search youtube for any one of these people, they are popular figures with large following.
     
  8. AroundTheWorld

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    Umm...Mathloom...that previous post could have been from me :confused:.

    But shocking that trustme defends this stuff. Not surprising, but shocking.
     
  9. Rashmon

    Rashmon Member

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    Interesting video Mathloom.

    It's ironic that the freedom of speech in Western societies may be contributing to the spread of this hate.

    Is there less of this type of rhetoric in Dubai or Qatar because of restrictions on speech or some other reason?
     
  10. trustme

    trustme Member

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    If none of it were taken out of context, which I personally believe some was, then yes he is very wrong in many aspects. Especially about the women. It just seems so unbelievable that people like this would be preaching this kind of stuff so openly. I mean I've attended khutba's in Saudi and never did I come across anything so bizarre.


    I don't defend or tolerate radicals. They have done enough damage to Islam/the world. I have also learned not to judge people too quickly.
     
  11. AroundTheWorld

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    I had wanted to answer that question by Mathloom, but forgot.

    I find it interesting that Mathloom blames the UK for supposedly being incapable of containing this kind of stuff.

    The reason that Western democracies struggle with the islamist influence is precisely that Western democracies value freedom of speech and freedom of religion. The islamists recognize this as a "weakness" (in their eyes) and abuse it so they can spread their message of hatred and intolerance, while blinding the fools in these democracies (especially on the left) who do not realize this. I recommend that people like FranchiseBlade and even MadMax watch this video.

    These imams pretend to be all for interfaith, respecting the laws, etc., then they go back to their mosques (which were often built even with part-public funding!) and preach killing jews, deceiving kufirs and beating up women (and actually do it).

    It is a dilemma for Western societies, because we want to uphold the freedoms our forefathers fought for, but if we are not vigilant, then by doing so, we pave the way for intolerance to take over.

    Mathloom is wrong to blame the UK: He should blame those representatives of his (current or former) religion who are unable to contain the influence of the extremists, and who allow their own religion to be taken over by these people - we can see what these led to in Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Pakistan and several other places around the world.

    I can see where Mathloom is coming from, though, because he indeed lives in a society where freedom of speech does not exist to the same degree as in Western societies, and this did show in his contributions to the cartoonist case - it's simply a clash of cultures. I want to believe that he wants to fight these radical elements within islam, but does not understand that the means taken to do so in terms of restricting speech are more difficult to apply in Western societies than in a society like Dubai, precisely because Western societies are more tolerant and allow more freedoms.

    From the outside, it is almost impossible to distinguish who is lying to you and who is real - this video shows it. The same imam tells the UK government "we promote an interfaith exchange" and, when he feels that he is "among his own people", tells them that Bin Laden and any terrorist is closer to him than the kufirs, no matter how many people they murder - because they are also muslim. Then how do you blame people like Geert Wilders and Sarrazin, when they fail to distinguish between islamists and (supposedly) moderate muslims? How do you even do it when you know you are being lied to?

    In my opinion, freedom of speech and freedom of religion must end where they are abused for direct incitement to violence and to anti-democratic actions.

    I don't see how these islamists are different from neo-nazis, both want to overthrow the government and to exterminate certain groups of people (partly actually the same people, namely jews, which explains the interesting coalition in some places between islamists and neo-nazis).
     
    #51 AroundTheWorld, Jan 4, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2011
  12. AroundTheWorld

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    In light of the video Mathloom posted, this article is interesting.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/04/world/europe/04iht-politicus04.html?_r=3&ref=world&pagewanted=all

    With Muslims, Europe Sees No Problem, and That's the Problem

    AMSTERDAM — Of all Europe’s great and present miseries, the one receiving the most uncertain remedies is the failing integration of its increasingly large and alienated Muslim communities.

    The wobbling euro, the European Union’s markedly uncertain future as a unified economic force and world political player, its debt, growth and deficit levels, all get daily prescriptive counsel from thousands of experts and bystanders. The markets post minute-to-minute fever charts. Up, down, healing, worsening — the illness and the medicines are there for everyone to see.

    But in terms of measurable grief, the exact degree of Western and Islamic civilization’s collisions in Europe is much more difficult to plot.

    Instead, denial is their standard metric: That bomb didn’t go off here, our national soccer team is full of Muslim players, and we haven’t elected any anti-immigrant parties to Parliament, or if we have, they’re ultimately manageable. The less we talk about this stuff the better.

    Then something happens. A conflict comes into focus that, beyond its particulars, raises the question of the ultimate compatibility of Islamic communities in Western environments. An issue that, most comfortably, is kept vague, suddenly demands that Europe — in this case, the Netherlands — draw the line. But where is the line?

    What has taken place here is that Frits Bolkestein, the former leader of the Liberal Party, which now heads the Dutch government, has advised “recognizable Jews, orthodox Jews” that their children should emigrate from the Netherlands to Israel or the United States. He said, “I see no future for them here because of anti-Semitism, above all among the Moroccan Dutch, whose numbers continue to grow.”

    The remark last month twice shocked the Netherlands.

    There was the statement itself, resounding in the context of a national history in which almost the entire pre-World War II Jewish community of 150,000 was wiped out by the Nazis.

    More, there was Mr. Bolkestein’s view that the Dutch state was unlikely to deal successfully with the problem and his uncertainty that the Dutch people would demand its resolution. These were matters, he told me later, that reflect his profound and overarching concern about the long-term influence of Muslim populations on all of European society.

    This dark vision has particular impact here because of Mr. Bolkestein’s reputation among many of the Dutch as kind of seer concerning Muslim immigration. When he suggested in a speech in 1991 that integration had to mean compromises from newcomers concerning their old identities, he was denounced as a bigot. In the intervening 20 years, large parts of the Dutch political spectrum, and much of Europe’s, have evolved toward a position (closer to his) that regards respect of national law and tradition as more necessary than any further European accommodation to a growing Muslim community.

    Concerning the harassment of orthodox Jews in public places, Mr. Bolkestein, who is not Jewish, says that it is an “outrage” and “a tragedy” and that he sees similar circumstances existing in France and Sweden.

    Prime Minister Mark Rutte, a Liberal, has responded to Mr. Bolkestein by acknowledging that the problem is one of “great symbolic impact.”

    He said of the Netherlands’ anti-Semites, “We stand shoulder to shoulder and stand against these asses.” And, “We want to win society back from the bastards.”

    That sounds very much like an admission at the top that Dutch society has been moved or has retreated to someplace it doesn’t want to be.

    But Mr. Bolkestein’s pessimism runs deeper. Over the years, he has instead pointed to trends in the country’s population that he believes drive the Dutch/Muslim interface.

    Currently, based on official 2006 census figures, the Netherlands Interdisciplinary Demographic Institute estimates Muslims, essentially Moroccans and Turks, represent about 6 percent of the population (with criminality rates among Moroccan youth running about five times that of their Dutch peers). The institute projects the Muslim share of the population will represent 7.6 percent in 2050 — or, with an increased birthrate, 11 percent.

    Population growth that is faster than the native population’s, extremists’ murderous plots, sharp-edged disaffection for their adopted countries among third-generation Muslim males, and societies where large segments of the ethnic majority insist they feel increasingly less at home — what should the Netherlands, and by extrapolation Europe, do?

    Revert to a kind of multiculturalism that Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany, at least, insists is dead?

    In fact, the School of Acquiescence and Denial has its followers. Jürgen Habermas, a leading German intellectual figure for decades, has written, “We had, and apparently still have, to overcome the view that immigrants are supposed to assimilate the ‘values’ of the majority culture and to adopt its ‘customs.”’ André Glucksmann, who holds a similar place in the French intellectual stratosphere, notably for his views on European nihilism, refers nowadays to the “imaginary conflicts” that involve French society and France’s Muslims.

    In the Netherlands, Job Cohen, the leader of the Labor Party and former mayor of Amsterdam, who was defeated by Mr. Rutte in national elections last June, even points in the direction of Muslim suffering and exclusion from European society.

    Asked by a Dutch reporter whether current circumstances affecting Muslims resembled the exclusions of the 1930s, an obvious reference to the Nazi racial laws that placed Jews in an intolerable position in German society, he replied: “Yes.”

    Mr. Cohen explained, “That happens in two ways. They get blamed for Muslim extremism. And they get blamed when some Moroccan kids mess up.”

    Frits Bolkestein, whose father was a Buchenwald inmate, described Mr. Cohen’s vision of reality to me as “cultural masochism.”

    From this conflict of judgment and diction among democrats, there is no difficulty in identifying who takes profit.

    In France, Marine Le Pen of the National Front — trying to replace her father, Jean-Marie, who founded and led the rightist extremist group and called the Nazi gas chambers a “detail” of the history of World War II — has succeeded in turning that history into a nearly unspeakable but headline-making characterization:

    She compared streets sometimes closed off in Paris so that Muslims, for lack of mosques, could worship in them to the occupation of France by the Germans.

    The disintegration of the European Union and its common currency may well be steered into a rational, livable outcome. The increasingly mean and mutually demeaning confrontation between Europe and its Muslim immigrants finds no signs of a clear resolution, just more misery.


    ------------------



    Also interesting in this context is this former post by Mathloom:


     
  13. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    Groups under the Al Qaeda banner are likely shifting their attention to the US and its allies first as they view us as the source of the problem.
     
  14. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    Of course, because fighting in that region has only begun in the last 100 years.
     
  15. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    You are right, but this is not new.

    There is no total freedom of speech. You can't scream "bomb" on a plane, and you can't deny the holocaust in many European countries. It is no different with this kind of hate speech. Saying that you must kill Jews is a death threat, and the government does not have to respect that it's a religious belief of a psychotic group of people. It is exactly the kind of thing that has the entire Iranian nation in a chokehold - freedom of speech regarding their intentions.

    These are controls. They are there because the value of that freedom is significantly diminished in certain situations, and this is no different. If the French were serious about weeding out these kind of people, they would fare much better curtailing freedom of speech than banning a piece of cloth. One is a certain problem, the other MAY be a problem depending on the circumstances.

    Again, everyone is equal. I don't care where they're from or what their history is, or what the culture of the country is. I care about the law. The law is the law, and I think that in this case Dubai's willingness to cut out this bull**** to protect its youth is a positive. Something the UK can learn from.

    I always struggle to understand why people so vehemently believe they have complete freedom in Western democracies. You can't buy mar1juana. You can't send death threats. You can't abuse kids. These are freedoms that have been taken away by the government in the interest of its people.

    The same can be done to the people in the video. I'm baffled as to why it's allowed to continue. It's sad really. It would seem to me that if you're willing to wage wars, tap phones, have military bases worldwide, etc, that this is a small price to pay for the same goal.
     
  16. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Let them get back to arguing about tribal crap, we control the food, let them eat sand.

    Clearly that is horrible for the kids, but dang, we have got to stop propping up goverments that are this oppressive, it is killing the world by keeping freedom down.

    DD
     
    #56 DaDakota, Jan 4, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2011
  17. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    No, I don't buy this. With this thinking, I consider you part of the problem in isolating them and making them feel a different set of rules apply to them.

    When you say "WE" you are not including them. They are a part of Western society now. They are to be treated like everyone else and their religion is none of anyone's business. If they break the law they break the law and you deal with it. A murderer is a murderer, hate speech is hate speech, regardless of religion. Religion is none of the government's business.

    You can't go after the people who are doing it as long as you support their right to do it. If they are not breaking the law, then the absence if such law is tacit support of their right to do it.

    I'm shocked frankly that you continue to insist on forcing them into being traditional Europeans, it's such a neo-nazi mentality. There are different people, with different cultures, and one law. That's how it should go, that's how it set up. The moment you abondon your own ideals, you've failed.
     
  18. AroundTheWorld

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    I agree with much of this post, but there is a difference between stopping these people and e.g. censoring/blocking half the internet (Dubai).
     
  19. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    Read up on them. See what they say.
     
  20. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    Internet censoring is so last decade. Everyone has unrestricted access to the internet if they want it in Dubai.

    How are you not supportive of banning this hate speech when in the past you have supported Germany's restrictions on freedom of speech? What's more damaging to the world right now, a holocaust denier or a guy preaching to turn children into jihadist soldiers?
     

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