I try to help out where i can, any time i pass by a salvation army bucket i put as much as i can(usualyy $2-$5) But it does bug me when a homeless person is holding a bag of whiskey in one hand and a cigarete in the other and still begging for money. Those are two of the most expensive habits in the world. I think that the homeless need to try to help themselves out. Rockets03, i have heard a stat about people who pick up aluminum cans and recyclce them making somewhere between $30,000 to $40,000 a year but nowhere near a million dollar bank account. We should start a clutchcity foundation where you just chip in a little every month that goes toward an appointed charity.
davo: I am certainly not offended by your comments at all. You absolutely have a right to your opinion. I guess my issue is that, yes, it is a short term solution and nothing that really fixes the problem. But, it is something. The idea that things will just get better if we don't help is missing the point. People will starve and that, IMO, is inhumane. The point is that the gap between those who are well-off and those who are not is increasing. The numbers of homeless people on the streets of America are growing, NOT shrinking. While I realize that people who have money pay a lot in taxes (I should know, I just paid my property taxes yesterday), generally speaking, the richer you are, the more fiscally conservative. As a result, many people who have alot of money demand that less be spent on social welfare because it is a drain on our economy. You see the vicious cycle inherent in that? I'm not suggesting that some rich guy pull over and give the woman his car! I'm just saying that he could probably spare a buck or two and to decide that it is a waste is to decide that a human life is a waste and that is a problem for me. The population of homeless people in Houston and around the country is growing at an alarming rate and many of those who are on the street or living significantly below the poverty level are children. Don't they deserve better than that? Don't we all? I guess I just imagine what it must be like to wonder where your next meal will come from or if you will have a place to sleep and worry for those who have to deal with that daily reality. Terrorism scares me less than poverty because poverty is an assault on our humanity that we are forced to face every single day, not on the news, but on our street corners near our homes. Imagine that you could not afford clothes or a home or a car or even food. Imagine the devastation, the shame, the fear and frustration that must come with that life. A dollar or a blanket might only be a short-term fix but we don't know that. That might be the last dollar she ever gets from someone. That might be the last thing she needs to get on her feet. In the Bible, it tells us to be nice to EVERYONE because we do not know who it may be or how we may be helping. That applies to the rich and the poor. Nearly every spiritual discipline believes strongly not in the capitalistic goal of being greedy and being productive as you put it but in charity and goodwill towards our fellow man and woman. THAT is the very nature of why we are here - to give and receive love whether it comes in the form of a kiss and hug or blanket and coffee. Jesus, in fact, spoke out against the rich in his time for forsaking the poor and was really a poor man himself. He never said that wealth was the path to heaven. He said, "It is harder for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kindom of heaven." I don't believe this was a literal concept but meant as a point that those focused on worldly possessions were far too consumed by them and not enough by spiritual pursuits. Ultimately, for Jesus, the spiritual pursuits were vastly more important than the money. Buddah did not become enlightened until he gave up his riches (he was a prince) and pursued something beyond the boundries of this world. I honestly don't feel like we have to give up everything to find ourselves, but the problem is the focus on money has taken us away from ourselves and our humanity. In fact, we need our basic needs to be met if we expect to feel safe enough to be able to explore our humanity. Of course, many Buddhists and Christians (as well as Muslims, Jews, Hindus and others) have used their spiritual doctrines as a means to help others - spiritual activism is a wonderful thing. Still many others believe that activism should be limited to those groups. Think of it this way. So, some (emphasis on the word "some") rich people don't give to the homeless or to beggars as you put it. Some give charitably to organizations. That's great. Some even volunteer. Even better. However, we continually fall short anyway. Houston leads the country in hours volunteered per person. We are an incredibly giving city. Yet, there are still children and men and women living on the streets. It isn't enough and we must be aware of the problems if we are to face them. It doesn't bother me that people don't want to help. Everyone has their reasons. It bothers me when people don't pay attention and think that the problem is somehow outside of themselves. Ignoring it won't make it go away. The measure of a society is how we treat our least fortunate. The measure of a man or woman is how much we give of ourselves to others. It is up to us to make that difference even if all we can lend is an ear or a smile. But, if we can do more, it is our responsibility as human beings to do more - not an opportunity but a duty. ------------------ The way to use life is to do nothing through acting, The way to use life is to do everything through being. - Lao-Tzu
I never give to those begging on the side of the road, as the result of several experiences I had while living in Waco, which has a big problem with homeless, and not so homeless, population. I had a friend with a very kind spirit that would always give to people begging on the side of the road. She grew frustrated with seeing them take the money and walk to the convenience store to buy beer or cigarettes, so she started getting gift certificates to Whataburger. The first person she tried to give these to refused to take them. The next took them, but gave her a funny look. Half an hour later she went to get some more, and found the guy outside Whataburger trying to sell the certificates. Three other incidents come to mind from my time working on an ambulance in Waco. I had a friend who had a person yell insults at him for not giving, and actually grabbed onto the open car window and run with the car when he started moving at an intersection. He then three his bottle at the car as it drove away. There was also a young lady who was assaulted in her car, because she only gave $5 and the man saw she had more in her wallet. There was also an intoxicated homeless man who stumbled in front of a car on the feeder road to the interstate, killing himself, and injuring the driver. The Baylor Psychology Department did a big study on the homeless population in Waco, and found a lot of interesting results. As was stated before, many of them suffer from mental illnesses, and are unwilling or unable to seek help on their behalf. But, most of the homeless people were homeless because they chose to be. They knew resources were available to help them get off of the street, but refused to take advantage of them -- many citing an unwillingness to take "charity" (The obvious question came up, but for some reason they didn't view begging for money as charity.) They also found that those begging for money actually identified and communicated "soft spots" -- places where they tended to get more money -- usually at major intersections close to schools and churches. They did target women. They "worked" 4-5 hours a day, 5-6 days a week, and brought in $100-200 per day, averaging the equivalent of $40,000-50,000 a year (no taxes). They also found that most of these individuals used the money to buy alcohol and cigarettes, and would go to the Salvation Army shelter (about two blocks away from the most popular locations, near the interstate) or another local shelter for meals and shelter. There were a number who weren't homeless, but chose to beg over working at a lower wage job. The conclusion was that by giving to people begging, people were actually encouraging the behavior, and feeding the addictions of these people. Jeff, I think it's wonderful that you have such a big heart. I feel very sad when I see someone begging for money, and very thankful for the blessings I have. But, I don't think these people are helped at all by giving them money. I think it is much better, and safer, to donate time, food, clothing, and money to the Salvation Army, The Star of Hope Mission, and other such charities. They have the experience and resources to make sure that people in need get what they do need -- particularly food and shelter -- rather than another bottle or smoke. They can also provide for longer term needs, including encouragement and counseling. That's my $0.02. ------------------ Stay Cool...
First off, I didn't give her money. I gave her clothing, blankets and tarps to keep her dry. She was VERY grateful. Second, let's assume for a moment that homeless people buy alcohol or cigarettes with the money we give. Let's further assume that living on the streets is as difficult a job as, say, being an accountant or a building inspector. Let's go a step further and say that they DO earn $30K per year begging, a number similar to a first-year accountant or building inspector. Should we demand of either of the two workers that they not drink alcohol or smoke cigarettes? I'm not saying homelessness should be a career choice. Obviously, it is a difficult life - try it if you are not convinced. What I'm saying is that giving is a GIFT and should not have strings attached. Lots of people further their bad habits with paychecks from respectable jobs. There is no crime in being an alcoholic and, according to some studies, nearly 50% of our adult population falls into that category. I know this is an extreme example, but it is worth noting that we are so concerned about not giving homeless people money lest they "waste it" but we have no problem giving big paychecks to people who might do the same simply because they do what we consider respectable work. ------------------ The way to use life is to do nothing through acting, The way to use life is to do everything through being. - Lao-Tzu
Well Jeff, Why do emplyers DEMAND you not drink on the job muchless any drugs. I think all money comes with strings attached I think it is morally unethical to CON people into giving you money which is what that is. People give money so these people can have food, shelter, etc We b*tch about taxes because it does not go where we think it should. . . This is no different. . . in fact the amount of emotional blackmail for a smoke or drink or drugs is ridiculous. I don't berate the person on welfare for using their money to buy popsicles and junk food but if they buy smokes. alcohol, etc Then I HAVE ISSUE [i know they cannot *directly* buy these things] Rocket River ------------------
But Jeff, they key difference here is in the "giving". We are not "giving" people with so called respectable jobs "big paychecks" - they are earning it(supposedly ) - they are returning something to society. If someone earns $30,000 per year as an accountant and spends ALL of it on Alcohol, then good luck to them - that is not the issue. We are debating the issue of how best to provide assistance to homeless people, and how best to help them; through funding them directly, or by funding programs/charities and encouraging them to help themselves. I do not voluntarily give to alcoholic accountants, I pay them for services rendered. ------------------ Maybe all the rulers are wrong. Current Rocket's Salary & Contract Info
davo, rr: I know what you are saying and I understand, however, you miss the point. The point is that you are not "giving" if you hand money to someone with an express purpose attached. If that were the case, you would give food or clothes or whatever. When you give money, you GIVE UP the right to decide where it goes. If someone gives you $20 for Christmas, it is understood that it is for you to do with what you want. End of story. You can't give and expect something from someone in return. That belies the very nature of a gift. To take it a step further, one might argue that living on the street IS earning a living. Just because someone does something doesn't make their work harder than the life of someone who lives on the street. I could sit at a desk all day and do virtually nothing other than work on a computer and get paid pretty well. I've done it before. Now, wouldn't you agree that living on the street is tougher than sitting in that office? Like I said, I realize the extremity of the argument but I'm making it for a point. The fact is that you don't have to give money. Give blankets when it is cold. Make a sandwich. Buy someone some food. Give out gift certificates. Whatever. To say, "I won't give to homeless people because they'll just go spend it on alcohol and cigarettes" is a cop out. So, don't give them cash. Give them items. I gave my umbrella to a guy recently because it was raining and he was getting soaked. He was very appreciative for it. If they are too stubborn or mentally screwed up or whatever to accept your gift of food or things rather than cash, don't give them anything and go to the next person. I just think that people use the alcohol, drugs and cigarettes as an excuse not to do anything. I give money to Star of Hope every year in addition to the other things I do. I realize that organizations have the best chance at helping and I would never ignore that fact. However, that doesn't excuse anyone from ignoring the problem, which is what the alcohol, cigarettes and drugs argument is - a way to ignore the problem. In Asia, Bhuddist monks beg daily for their food. It is part of their religious practice of giving up all they have for their religion. The people giving get nothing in return for their gift other than the satisfaction of knowing they helped someone in need. Obviously, the monks aren't smokin' J's or sucking on a 45 every night, but the point remains that people help because they believe it is the right thing to do. It is not for us to decide who is deserving and who is not. "Judge not lest ye be judged" if I remember correctly. We do the best we can and try to help how we can. If that means spare change, a blanket or food, you do it, not because you think you are solving the problem of homelessness for the world but because you are acting compassionately for one idividual at one moment in time. ------------------ The way to use life is to do nothing through acting, The way to use life is to do everything through being. - Lao-Tzu
Jeff, We are almost in perfect agreement. I guess the word gift is being used where maybe it shouldn't. Rather than "give" a homeless person a gift, I would rather "help" them. In my opinion, if I am supplying the help, I reserve the right to decide how best to apply it. To me, giving help in the form of cash does more harm than good, so generally I choose not to do it (although I do on occasion). You and I agree that providing material goods like blankets or vouchers is better than cash, which I guess was a major part of my argument. The other part was that it is better to provide help thorugh organized charities etc, so it looks like we agree on that too. Shame, because I enjoyed having a rational debate with someone who argues subjectively. ------------------ Maybe all the rulers are wrong. Current Rocket's Salary & Contract Info
Jeff, I think it was very smart not to give money to the lady. Let me suggest something that is helpful for me. I like to talk with the person about what they need. Generally speaking, I don't like to just give them money. If they want groceries, I'd rather tell them that I'll accompany them to the grocery store. If they need gas, I like to accompany them to the gas station. People who are dishonest will often reject that kind of help. I have a friend who was approached by some people who said they were traveling. They needed gas money and money for a hotel room. (I don't remember if they said their money was stolen or what.) My friend offered to allow them to stay at his apartment, fix them diner, and fill up their car with gas the next morning. They declined to accept his generosity. A word of caution: I once helped a man get a prescription he didn't have money for. Don't ask me how he got the prescriptions in the first place, because it turned out that he was abusing the medication. I was even informed that he was charged with fraud and was going to put on trial for evidently cheating Medicare or Medicaid or something like that. ------------------
Good suggestions, Traj. The woman I took the stuff to told me that tarps were "exactly what she needed." Of course, it was pouring down rain, so no surprise. I asked her if she had a place to stay and she said that she did so I left it at that. ------------------ The way to use life is to do nothing through acting, The way to use life is to do everything through being. - Lao-Tzu
First I'd like to say there are MANY good points on this topic. I too have worked with the homeless. It's not a problem - it's many problems. From what I've witnessed, I'd classify the homeless into the categories of: Problem group 1 - Severe alcoholics. Wanna drink 24-7. Gotta drink 24-7. And they don't want anything (the responsibility of a job, home, etc.) interfering with there love. You could also throw drug addition in here - though I think there are much fewer proportionally. Problem group 2 - Mentally disabled. Insane if you will. Ranging from mild to wild. My dad said that years ago the political parties decided it was cruel and unusual punishment to keep someone locked up indefinitely under government supervision - not private institutions - who were not a danger to themselves or others. I'm not sure if that is correct - but I can see it being possible. Problem group 3 - Anti-establishment. Don't want to work period. That would be conforming. They want 1 thing most - total freedom - no rules. Problem group 4 - Mother and children. Generally an abusive male figure has driven them out and they have no where to go. To me - this group is saddest. For those of you who have gone through a breakup/divorce - from a spouse or child's perspective - add to that homeless. There are some serious pieces that need repairing. It still breaks my heart. Problem group 5 - Other. There are a few cases of extreme circumstances which has left someone homeless. There are some other beggars out there, but they are not homeless. Answer to 1 - ? How do you make someone quit drinking. Answer to 2 - Open the asylums back up. Answer to 3 - They want to be homeless. Their choice. Answer to 4 - Star of Hope and other great organizations. Good place to go to get good long and short term help. Answer to 5 - Salvation Army and other organizations to help them. They must stay clean and sober during the program. If someone wants to bad enough, they can get back on their feet. I would encourage everyone who feels the heart tug to get involved. Volunteer your time and/or money to the organizations. You'd be amazed at the change you can make. ------------------
