Coming in late on this one...I have been very busy. Jeff, I am really glad I know you, you are truly a good person. BK, You silly, silly little boy. You make me laugh like a clown. ROckets03, People want to take the "easy" route of begging? You are not serious are you? Do you really think that flipping burgers, or doing data entry, telemarketing, hell - even hard physical lanor is harder than being homeless? Digging through garbage, hoping for enough food, barely taking a bath, and being exposed to the elements does not constitute a life of leisure, you know. Why don't all of us try it sometime - see how long we last. Shame on you, Jeff, for suggesting that people who Drive $35,000 cars should give a dollar to someone on the street. You are evil. A menace to society - your words speak of communism and that is the way of the Devil! I think your subversive ass should be banned from this board. ------------------ EZLN
Thats the dumbest thing I have ever heard on this board. Some rich people might feel that way, but not all. I drive a damn Lexus and not once in my life have I ever thought as me being better then someone. I dont think poor people are on the streets because they "lazy" or "stupid". I dont think they deserve to be there, but like the rest of us I dont know of any solutions to end homelessness. And rimmy I stated that there are probably a "number" of homelessness who "prefer the ease of begging". I didnt say all of them do. Probably a very small minority. I have read stories of homeless people having million dollar bank accounts at the time of their deaths. These people didnt want to work because they made much more money begging on the streets. ------------------ SUCK POLICE!!!!!! To point out individuals or teams that have managed to reach the pinnacle of SUCKINESS!!!!! ----- Rudy T SUCKS! The man needs to figure out: -That its okay to play Shandon in clutch situations. -Mobes doesn't have to get the ball every single time at the end of the game. -That its okay to actually give the ball to Steve or Mo at the end of the game.
Could you cite some sources on that one? That sounds like a Hollywood premise - i.e. the hooker with the heart of gold. Of course, if I had a million bucks in the bank, I wouldn't have to work OR beg. ------------------ The way to use life is to do nothing through acting, The way to use life is to do everything through being. - Lao-Tzu
Rocket03, my insulting friend ok . . i left out the word Maybe but Just as some homeless enjoy the EASE OF BEGGING some rich THINK THE HOMELESS ARE LAZY Rocket River ------------------
At least we have a president now that is actually a man of the people and keeps his ear close to pulse of the common man. Things are bound to get better now! ------------------ Sometimes I think I'd be better off dead. No, wait, not me...you.
HEY!! Whats wrong with I-10 and Washington??? Probably, but most likely only for a short period of time. I agree that a big pile of cash would be nice, but have rarely seen it sustain happiness for an extended period of time. Sorry, thats the buddist in me trying to come out. BTW, good job Jeff. It's nice to see that there are some compassionate people in this city. The world could use more people like you. ------------------ President of the Moochie Norris Fan Club - est. 99-00
You know, that must have been the most talented homeless person in the world to have averaged about $100/day for 30 years, not spent any of it and died with a million dollars in their bank account. He (or she) should have written a book so we could all quit our jobs and live the good life ... Ya probably shouldn't believe everything you hear. In other news, I have to admit I have lived a pretty sheltered life ... I recently went to San Francisco and saw the most homeless people I have ever seen in my life. I had never really thought about them until I saw them on every street corner, many of them not even begging, just huddled corners, trying to keep warm (it was about 20 degrees at night). I saw a guy wearing pants that weren't really pants at all, just shreds from about mid-thigh on down. Ever since I left SF, I have regretted not stopping that man and buying him a pair of pants. I'm still trying to break down the barriers that living in suburbia have built around me. I suspect a lot of people feel the same way. You want to do something, but you don't know what to do, even in situations, like mine above, where it is painfully obvious what you should do. Jeff, I think you set a fine example for the rest of us. I hope that next time I am put in a situation to help someone out that I actually follow through on it. ------------------ Brought to you by the letter M.
I couldnt agree with you more River. I never stated that all rich people are good and all poor people are bad. There are always going to be some rotten potatoes in every sack (where the hell have i heard that cheesy line?). Jeff I dont remember where I read that, so sorry I cant back that up with actual sources. But I did read it myself in some respectable publication. Its not some second hand rumor Im passing along. And I dont know why everyone is piling on me. Like I stated I always try to donate to good causes and try to help out the homeless. Rocket River ------------------ SUCK POLICE!!!!!! To point out individuals or teams that have managed to reach the pinnacle of SUCKINESS!!!!! ----- Rudy T SUCKS! The man needs to figure out: -That its okay to play Shandon in clutch situations. -Mobes doesn't have to get the ball every single time at the end of the game. -That its okay to actually give the ball to Steve or Mo at the end of the game. [This message has been edited by R0ckets03 (edited December 27, 2000).]
A couple summers ago I took an internship through UH at a homeless rehabilitation clinic off I-10 call Lord of the Streets -- helluvan eye-opener. A lot of these guys out there suffer from a multitude of mental disorders. Even when extended full clinical and psycological treatment, over a protracted period of time, there were no guaruantees of recovery. Many of the men admitted into the clinic were back on the streets in a matter of weeks. Some left after being in the program for months. I wish I could say watching the few make their way through made the experience worthwhile, but there's nothing enriching about watching others die. We couldn't save a lot of these guys, even with our clinic, our alters, our counselors, and whatnot. What the hell are you gonna do with a blanket and a couple dimes? When I have the time, I'll post more information on the organization itself. ------------------ It doesn't matter if I have a signature!
Jeff -- I apologize if it seemed like I was coming down on you. It sucks to see people suffer and its cool you care enough to wanna do something. ------------------ It doesn't matter if I have a signature!
Stone Cold: I didn't view what you said as coming down on me at all. On the contrary, I found it fascinating and compassionate. Your concern was obvious and the knowledge about them greater than I. To everyone else, I appreciate the kind words. I was really just venting. I hope no one thought I was preaching. God knows I have NO business doing that. ------------------ The way to use life is to do nothing through acting, The way to use life is to do everything through being. - Lao-Tzu
I admire your compassion Jeff, but with all due respect, I think I need to add a couple points. when I went, every car that came by drove past and didn't even look. Many of them were in Mercedes, BMW's, Lexus' and big freakin' SUV's. They pretended that this struggling human being didn't exist the DAY BEFORE CHRISTMAS!!! All these well off people driving new cars probably earn household incomes in excess of 100,000 and as such contribute over $20,000 in taxes, for the government to administer as they see fit. In addition to that, they probably paid a healty slice of duty on those imported cars, which also goes to the government. By being successful, wealthy, maybe greedy, and maybe hardworking, they are probably doing more for homeless people than, say, a blanket and some food. The very nature of capitalistic society like this one, encourages and rewards people to strive for success, be greedy and be more productive. In doing so, it drags up the standard of living for everyone else. My second point is that while noble, understandable and heartfelt, in reality, giving to beggars does not do much aside from providing a short term fix. As the old saying goes, you can give a man a fish and feed him for a day, or you can teach him to fish and feed him for a lifetime. Now I have given to homeless before, and I will probably do it again, so I am not criticizing you Jeff, but consider the extreme - if NO-ONE gave to homeless? This lady would either starve, she would be forced to try and find work, or she would be forced to make use of whatever publically provided assistance she could find. Granted, publically provided assistance maybe poor or non-existant (I honestly don't know) but if every homeless person NEEDED it to survive, it would grow, get greater funding, and become more effective. I am certainly not saying that what you did was in anyway wrong or that the above extreme is the right answer, merely presenting another aspect the argument. However I don't think directing your angst toward the luxury car drivers ignoring her is necessarily appropriate. ------------------ Maybe all the rulers are wrong. Current Rocket's Salary & Contract Info
The problem usually is the "want to factor"... Remember this phrase??? Give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish, he eats every day. True in principle but not in reality. The man still has to want to fish, or use his education, or connections, or the shelter... whatever the situation, the desire or drive to use what's been given as a means of betterment must first be there... Only changes of heart can affect the outward... And no man knows the heart. I deal with homeless people on a regular basis at my church... some of which accept the means of help which are already in place, by going to the shelters, getting cleaned up, put in touch with the job locators, and the few, the minority do actually "bootstrap" up... but they are the exception to the rule... Several are resistant, because they want only cash... offer to buy the meal they say they want, and you get resistance. Offer to drive them instead of giving them bus fare? Resistance. Some have touched on this before, but several people that beg only want to keep their habits alive, and not themselves... it's self destruction, deception, and drawn-out suicide that I can not and will not supply the needs of. There are plenty charities, several options, and actually good people presenting them to the homeless, besides government programs... but a change of heart is required in the individual in need before things can be changed outwardly. A sad, but true fact. ------------------ Proud Father of the Rockets' future point guard.
First, let me state that I applaud whatever work you may do with your church to try and help those in need. However, it sounds to me like you may be the one who needs a change of heart. If the homeless people you come in contact with are willing to do all the things necessary to live what you believe is a "good life" then you will help them. But if they refuse to follow your rules, then you'd rather they starve? Maybe they use the money for a beer, maybe they use it for food. Hell, maybe they use it for both. Lord knows, I like a little wine with my meal every now and then. Perhaps it's not up to us to decide. Perhaps we should help everyone and trust that God or fate or whatever will guide them to the right path eventually. That seems to be the most humane thing to do.
rascal, I think that you missed IROCit's point entirely, or at least, interpret it very differently to me. He is not purporting to make the homeless person's decision for them - he is merely providing a means for them to help themselves. My interpretation of this, and also my view, is that I would rather offer support to homeless in the form of organized charities or government programs that have the greatest chance of succeeding. We provide the infrastructure to help, and "..trust that God or fate or whatever will guide them " to make the decision to help themselves. By providing these services, you ARE "helping everyone" But if they refuse to follow your rules, then you'd rather they starve? If the rules you refer to are not supplying homeless with cash, then I vehemently disagree with you. If I give money to an individual homeless person, there is a reasonable chance that they will spend most of it on alcohol, and only the bare minimum on food or personal health. If I give that money to a shelter, they will only provide what is necessary to live. It is my belief that a person will not voluntarily starve themselves to death, as long as there are options available to eat. However, I also believe that a person WILL kill themselves through alchohol or other drug abuse. I fail to see how IROCit's decision (and mine) not to directly support this behaviour should require a "change of heart" I guess we have different views of what is a "humane thing to do" ------------------ Maybe all the rulers are wrong. Current Rocket's Salary & Contract Info
davo: The problem is that the programs in place aren't working well enough to stop the problem. If it were, there wouldn't be any homeless on the street. Now, maybe many are alcoholics or drug users. Maybe they do have mental problems. Fine. Why is it, however, that there are literally many many times more of them on the street today than 20 years ago? What changed between 1980 and 2000 that created this unprecedented state? The system in place has failed and it isn't as if they system is somehow more beneficial to indigent people today than it was in the 1960's. If the numbers of people on the street, percentage-wise, had remained basically the same over the past 50 years, I could accept it. But, the fact that they have increased dramatically tells me something is wrong and we owe it to those stuck out there to do anything and everything possible to fix the problem. Until we accept the responisiblity for everyone's survival, not just those we care about or have relationships with, people will continue to suffer needlessly. I know that some will refuse. That is inevitible. But, in the case of all of us, the only real failure is the decision not to keep trying. ------------------ The way to use life is to do nothing through acting, The way to use life is to do everything through being. - Lao-Tzu
From today's LA Times via OpinionJournal: http://opinionjournal.com/best/ Scroll down to the Homeless by Choice link. Also, can somebody provide the statistics for the number of actual deaths by starvation in this country. ------------------
Interesting story. Some refuse shelters because they don't want to conform to zero-tolerance drug and alcohol policies curfews or attend prayer sessions. Some fear being robbed or attacked by other homeless. And others just want their freedom, said Leonard Schneiderman, professor emeritus at the UCLA School of Public Policy. I'm not sure if the article was trying to malign or just give info but it isn't really that surprising. As for starving to death, it really goes beyond just not eating. There is no healthcare, no nutrition, exposure to the elements, mental illness, etc that contributes to the death of homless people probably far more frequently than starvation. ------------------ The way to use life is to do nothing through acting, The way to use life is to do everything through being. - Lao-Tzu
One other note about homelessness... Being poor is the last taboo. When you can't afford a "good" lifestyle, you suddenly have no access to many of the things those of us with a solid income take for granted. Inadequate and below-standard healthcare tops the list. How can you care for yourself let alone a child or family member if you have no money or insurance? Poor housing, bad schools, exposure to crime, unsanitary living conditions...the list goes on. It is almost ok to be just about anything in America except poor. If you are poor, you are automatically "lazy," "crazy," "unable to take care of yourself," "a criminal" or "a child" in they eyes of most people. The lives and feelings of people who are poor are as diverse as the rest of us. Some of them do drugs just like some of us. Some of them drink to much just like some of us. Some of them have mental problems just like some of us. Being poor and homeless isn't a crime and it isn't some sort of punishment for not working hard enough. ------------------ The way to use life is to do nothing through acting, The way to use life is to do everything through being. - Lao-Tzu
