1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

How can China, India, Russia and the US reduce CO2 emissions?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Senator, Jul 27, 2018.

  1. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    39,188
    Likes Received:
    20,340
    Bigtexxx got owned here. He doesn't even have a response other than to run back to his safe space and lash out.
     
  2. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2001
    Messages:
    45,954
    Likes Received:
    28,048
    Techwise:
    1) heavier emphasis on improving efficiencies in burning fossil fuels (more fuel efficient engines with targeted ramp ups, better LED tech for less wasteful lighting, more education and ratings for energy usage in active and standby mode for electronics)
    2) more investment into renewables (biodiesel, net zero energy buildings through better design) and recycling (consumer education/training for less sorting and higher quality conversion in recycling plants)
    3) Make clean coal tech cheaper or raise the price of gas to make it more attractive. Just like fracking, the tech is there but not viable until the profit is there. Just like fracking, clean coal will always be dangled as a possibility because of the amount of reserves both China and US have. I think this is the least possible solution unless China takes the initiative and swallow a heavy upfront capital cost that ignores all the cheaper alternatives out there. Continuing this wild and crazy thought...Maybe those greedy alt-coin miners will drain the energy grid to make this possible.

    Culturally:
    4) De-emphasize a culture of waste. Food is so cheap and plentiful in the US, that 1/3 of it goes to garbage bins despite being fresh and good looking. This includes carbon and fresh water intensive animal products from cradle to grave. The amount of energy and water needed to grow, process, ship, store, transfer, and place on storefronts is pretty amazing. This is also a major reason why vegans are climbing Everest with their cause. "Market forces" are totally upended by government subsidies and relatively cheap food margins.
    5) Do you really need that SUV? There will always be an arms race when it comes to car size. Gas prices are the biggest reason our freeways aren't littered with grotesque tanks and humvees. It's a pathetic short termed mindset, but that's the b*stard child of the free market and excessive marketing.
     
  3. AleksandarN

    AleksandarN Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2001
    Messages:
    5,080
    Likes Received:
    6,759
    That is not because of trump. This has to do with the policies of the previous administration. Actually if anything trump is trying his darnist to reverse epa policies of Obama.
     
  4. dmoneybangbang

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    22,591
    Likes Received:
    14,321
    Really? Isn’t the Trump Admin undoing Obama emission rules?
     
  5. dmoneybangbang

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    22,591
    Likes Received:
    14,321
    Thanks Obama! Sure as hell wasnt anything Trump did.
     
  6. dmoneybangbang

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    22,591
    Likes Received:
    14,321
    Just think if Trump would have been smart and used former Exxon CEO Tillerson to push for more natural gas globally. That would have been smart to bring up at the Paris Accords.
     
  7. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2013
    Messages:
    68,740
    Likes Received:
    32,412
    China, India, and Russia don't have to reduce their emissions, they get to keep increasing them because they signed the Paris Climate Agreement. That one virtue signal makes it okay for them to continue doing worse and worse while getting a pass. The US didn't sign that agreement so they'll keep catching hell while reducing emissions more than any other country on the planet year after year.

    Current year politics are just funny that way.
     
  8. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    35,057
    Likes Received:
    15,230
    It's not really because of Obama either. I liked Obama's approach on it, I like the Climate Accord and the Clean Power Plan, but they didn't have an opportunity to change our emissions. We've gotten cleaner because of technological change. Cleaner cars, improvements in energy efficiency especially in industry, and fracking.making gas so cheap it runs coal out of business. Regulation has played its part, like the MATS rule, but that's pre-Obama stuff. Some Trumpers might take the lesson that government shouldn't do anything because the market and innovation are the drivers, and that would be the wrong lesson to take. A lot of this pollution comes from making energy, and energy is dealt a lot in constructed markets that are designed to recognize or not recognize its externalities like pollution. We need to make these markets recognize the full costs so that we continue to innovate to be cleaner.
     
  9. AleksandarN

    AleksandarN Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2001
    Messages:
    5,080
    Likes Received:
    6,759
    Trump solution to Climate Change. Let’s make coal great again
     
  10. AleksandarN

    AleksandarN Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2001
    Messages:
    5,080
    Likes Received:
    6,759
    You don’t think Obama had anything to do with that?
     
  11. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    35,057
    Likes Received:
    15,230
    If I recall, his Admin cranked up requirements, but emissions standards for cars have been around since before him. I'm not saying he didn't do his part, but I don't know if it was a game-changer. CPP would have been a game-changer if it had a chance of standing in the Trump Admin.
     
  12. AleksandarN

    AleksandarN Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2001
    Messages:
    5,080
    Likes Received:
    6,759
    Also look at his energy policies. Are you saying those did not factor in emissions decline in 2017?

    Smart Grid Investment Grant (part of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009), which would affect 50 states and has the potential to reduce electricity use by more than 4% by 2033,[3]
    • The launch of the Advanced Research Projects Agency-Energy (ARPA-E) project under the Department of Energy and in collaboration with the Department of Defense, modeled after the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency,[4]
    • A new report on how the federal government can help create a "self-sustaining home energy efficiency retrofit industry"[5]
    • New efficiency standards for home appliances,[6]
    • A new National Fuel Efficiency Policy that will apply to cars from model years 2012-2016 and will ultimately require cars to have an average fuel efficiency of 35.5 mpg by 2016,[7]
    • Three measures to increase the production of biofuels: a renewable fuels standard, biomass crop assistance program, and a biofuels working group. The President has also created an interagency task force to help create a federal strategy for carbon capture and storage, and[8]
    • A new Environmental Protection Agency ruling (called the Mandatory Reporting of Greenhouse Gases Rule) requiring the reporting of greenhouse gas emissions by major emitters in the United States.[9]
     
  13. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2013
    Messages:
    68,740
    Likes Received:
    32,412
    I wouldn't say that the government shouldn't do anything, but there have been multiple proposals out there from the fringes that would have crippled the economy in order to attempt to accomplish emissions reductions....I think it's far better to let the market handle the change more naturally through innovation. For all of the money that was dumped into failures like Solyndra, SpectraWatt, Abound Solar, along with so very many others, it actually did very little and it was the market that came up with the solutions that wasn't in the direction the state thought it should go, but was the correct direction.

    If given enough time for the technology to progress, things will keep getting better without bankrupting the economy in order to force change before it is possible.
     
  14. AleksandarN

    AleksandarN Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2001
    Messages:
    5,080
    Likes Received:
    6,759
    Obama policies and investments in technology didn’t help?

    the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009, and many of those investments were specifically in clean energy. According to a report by Clean Edge: The Clean Tech Marketing Authority, the recovery act included more than $70 billion in tax credits and direct spending for programs involving clean energy and transportation.[10]

    The White House website states that the recovery act provided more than $80 billion in clean energy investments:[11]
     
  15. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    35,057
    Likes Received:
    15,230
    I like the Smart Grid grants. Smart grids are saving consumers a lot of money by making utilities more efficient. They will also help with the 2-way infrastructure we need to accommodate distributed generators, like rooftop solar which in the long run should reduce emissions. The grants are small compared to the overall cost, but can make some projects a green light. Houston got its smart grid thanks in part to a federal grant (pre-Obama).

    I met with a guy working under ARPA-E. They try to find corporate interest in early-stage innovators. No idea how successful they might have been.

    No, federal reports don't drive energy efficiency. The fact that efficiency pays for itself drives efficiency.

    Likewise with reporting of GHG emissions -- not knocking it, have good data is critical. But good data is different from emissions reductions.

    The other things are outside of my industry proficiency so I won't comment.

    I'm not saying Obama didn't do anything. I'm just saying that of all the drivers at play in reducing our emissions, he's not one of the big ones.
     
    B-Bob likes this.
  16. Senator

    Senator Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2018
    Messages:
    2,436
    Likes Received:
    910
    Investing in safe nuclear technologies is the most realistic thing at the moment. Bill Gates has a leading start up conducting tests but theres a stigma in places like Japan that have been burnt by outdated nuclear plants leaking.

    The technologies prevent any kind of meltdown in case of power loss or malfunction leading to loss off coolant. The biggest problem would be countries or rebels launching missiles at nuclear plants... chemical warfare. Do we let unstable places like the middle east use that, would they comply if oil was no longer bringing them billions?
     
  17. Senator

    Senator Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2018
    Messages:
    2,436
    Likes Received:
    910
    It is clear short term profits are stopping trump from committing the inevitable transition to renewables and safe as possible nuclear. That is why the whole constant growth for global economy thing is so dangerous , it undermines everyone's future.
     
  18. Senator

    Senator Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2018
    Messages:
    2,436
    Likes Received:
    910
    Are you in the fossil fuel energy industry? Do you think its realistic to curb emissions without transitioning to renewable and nuclear? Are mass scale biofuels closer than these 2 options? Will China ever be less sociopathic?
     
  19. AleksandarN

    AleksandarN Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2001
    Messages:
    5,080
    Likes Received:
    6,759
  20. Senator

    Senator Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2018
    Messages:
    2,436
    Likes Received:
    910
    Germany is not in the nasty foursome of China, India, Russia and the US. All the European countries are savvy enough to be fine - the entire European Union has less emissions than the US and are transitioning swiftly to clean energy. But in large countries with HUGE populations, it has not been proven to be cheap or realistic. You can add Japan to the 4 as they do not have the land mass for clean energy and import fossil fuels at high rates.


    But the world bleeds from these 5 main culprits hellbent on economic expansion at an unsustainable rate. They are in charge of making the change. The current problem with wind, solar and renewables is storage. I need ideas, not just more money promised to clean energy.
     

Share This Page