If Cato is involved, then a team with cap space (Bulls & Clippers) might be involved because of his BYC status. A third team could be involved or just a boatload of players so that the % deal on salaries isn't that big an issue on a Cato trade. Mango ------------------ We neeed more threads about Dream! Test Your NBA Trade Ideas 1. Put new topics in the proper forum. Things happening in the rest of the NBA 2. Use clear wording for new threads. 3. No duplicate threads 4. Conduct yourself as an adult. The Serious Police are watching. Donate Blood or be assimilated!
You know, I wonder what it must be like to be a Celtic fan. I mean, it must really, really suck for them. How spoiled are we? ------------------ "There are three kinds of lies: Lies, Damned Lies, and STATISTICS..." - Mark Twain -
Rocketsauce: I know how difficult this is for everyone (myself included). It drives me nuts because even I'm not in on this one. However, I think it is important to understand that Clutch gets info like this because he doesn't talk about it before or after deals go down. Every year, I have to believe that dozens of trade scenarios come and go with mixed results. If every one of them was reported, not only would it take the fun out of the speculation and the excitement of the trade, it would probably damage the chemistry of teams. Look at how Elie responded to the failed Stoudamire trade. The team was never the same. So, don't be hurt (that goes for everyone) if Clutch never reveals to any of us what could've been if this deal doesn't go through. Revealing that information, in the case of a failure, could cost Clutch and the rest of us our source just as easily as revealing information prior to trades could. Personally, I'm going to bug the hell out of him about it, but I have his phone number. ------------------ Me fail English? That's unpossible.
"This could get complicated." Chicago has major wood for a decent center. The Bulls can eat his salary---JUST. Maybe Cato and Drew are equal to the Chicago pick this year. Then send that pick and the pick we owe anyway (Milwaukee) to Vancouver with Dream and, say, Ceballos. 20 million off the books next year for Vancouver. Draft picks in a deep draft. To get rid of Reeves' salary, Vancouver would be grateful and not too greedy, I think. Reeves to Miami. Miami drops its cap detritus: Majerle, Ceballos, Green, etc. We get Reef (and Majerle, Green: but we waive them.) You could even send Walt to Chicago for Brad Miller and, say, Benjamin. Miller would come off our books after this year because only the first year of his contract is guaranteed. We could re-sign Mo (plays center), re-do Miller's $$ (ain't worth $4 mil) and Shandy. Vancouver and Chicago can make separate trades later to shore up other spots. This can't happen until Feb. 1 because of the Miami contracts and, conversely, Cato off the IR. Well? I'm waiting for the flak. ------------------
Clutch said if the deal goes through then we would all be partying. Would SAR cause all of us to party? I would, but I have heard many people that think it would be better to leave SAR alone and save our own cap space for a run at Webber. So who would make everyone celebrate? KG? He would definitely seem untouchable but does SAR really get everyone that excited? One other point. Could Doc's reference about the cold mean that the Rockets had to make sure Dream would except a trade to a cold weather city with the same enthusiasm (at least in the media) that he would if traded to a warm weather city in order to prevent any bad PR? Rudy did say that he had misunderstood some things that Dream said. ------------------
You were sitting on the beach, politely admiring a young lady who didn't seem terribly smart but was wearing a bandana where the sun doesn't shine. As she approached, you spilled your beer down the front of your shorts and peed on yourself. You tried to cover it up by feigning injury. She stared at you blankly and decided it was the first time you'd ever seen a woman.
IR/__ 1X Time for some analysis. IR...insane rednecks...Sacramento /...i'll go with the forward slash thing previously mentioned...FORWARD __...what do u usually underline? something REALLY important 1x...x-man...wolverine...Michigan Wolverines...CHRIS WEBBER!!! I got it, we're getting Chris Webber!!! Isn't it obvious? After doing some quick number crunching I found a trade that works. Olajuwon for Webber, Stojakovic, and Jon Barry. Looks fair to me. ------------------ "I have often wanted to drown my troubles, but I can't get my wife to go swimming." Jimmy Carter [This message has been edited by Band Geek Mobster (edited January 27, 2001).]
I've said it before - Dreams not going anywhere. Especially not Miami - http://www.herald.com/content/today/sports/basketball/digdocs/100452.htm ------------------ GATER
Dickerson was a #1 pick for the Rockets wasn't he? Do you think Rudy wants to bring Dickerson and his speed back to go with Steve, Mooch, Cat, and Shandon as part of the trade? I would want to party if they got rid of Cato, Walt, and Carlos in one fell swoop. [This message has been edited by No Chance (edited January 27, 2001).]
I am not attempting to add fuel to the fire here but it appears we have two camps: What are the differences in opinion here? 1. Any change (trade) is good for the team. Well, that is ridiculous. Change for the sake of change never won any championships or moved someone up in the standings. This game has to be calculated, and that goes for change also. 2. We need a blockbuster deal that will, by definition I guess, change the face of the team drastically. Also not a necessity. Playing a competitive game like we have been doing and making a couple of key but not blockbuster changes could increase our chances at moving into eighth or seventh (maybe even sixth) spot. What does the team want/desire? When you look at the changes that could take place, and use logic here please, you come up with a couple of scenarios.And only a couple of scenarios. 1. Attempt to keep the advantage of Hakeem's cap space for next summer. Or at least a good portion of it. It is a given, that we have to have some of that space to make the moves this summer that are long overdue. Shandon, MoTay, Free Agency, etc... 2. We need a dominating presence in the middle. That more than anything is stopping us from moving up a couple of slots right now. We need " ... a young forward, right now, who can help us out there (rebounds and defense)" per CD last week. 3. Unload some dead weight. Wiz will always be, regardless of how you feel about him, a streaky-shooting bench player. Cato has proven his fragility guides his game more than his talent, er ... excuse me ... his "potential talent". Carlos may be included in this category also,except he has a short contract, is versatile and is a team motivator. But, what can the team afford to do? 1. They can unload the dead weight now. 2. They can hang up the season. 3. They can hold on to Hakeem and just take it from there next summer. 4. (a) Or they can shop some people with the proviso that some of their wants can still be met. That means trade some weight, possibly pick up a young defensive forward to compliment the team (PJ Brown-like) and bide time. (b)Or, unload some weight, make non-threatening changes and that may mean something as simple as replacing Cato for a starter(Kandiman-like), Walt for a higher calibre starter (SAR-like).I guess if we actually got someone like SAR that could be considered a "Blockbuster Deal" by most definitions. (c)Or, a combo that would include contracts on less impact players but are lighter or in fact expire this summer. But include at least one taleneted starter. The most likely scenario. Incidentally, from what I hear, any changes that will happen will happen fairly soon. That is within a week or so. PS: CD is a work horse. Cheers. ------------------ [This message has been edited by oeilpere (edited January 27, 2001).]
Thanks for the heads-up oeilpere. Any updates at all are greatly appreciated. Now if you excuse me, i will read your post a hundred times over and over again to see what i can catch between the lines. If it comes down only to dumping the dead weight, i would consider it a great move, indeed. ------------------ "Dream another dream, this dream is over... Dream another dream, this dream is over... Dream another dream..." - from the Van Halen song, "The Dream is Over" (Thank you, Freak). Fitting, isn´t it?
Originally posted by oeilpere: 1. Attempt to keep the advantage of Hakeem's cap space for next summer. Or at least a good portion of it. It is a given, that we have to have some of that space to make the moves this summer that are long overdue. Shandon, MoTay, Free Agency, etc... Agreed. Mo and Shandon should stay put and we should have some cap to shop much-needed role-players, like Jerome Williams, Ruben Patterson and Antonio Davis, for instance. Good player, but not superstar talent. 2. We need a dominating presence in the middle. That more than anything is stopping us from moving up a couple of slots right now. We need " ... a young forward, right now, who can help us out there (rebounds and defense)" per CD last week. A young forward. I wonder who that young forward could be? Specially a presence in the middle. Both Marion and Rahim would fit the bill, except i´m not sure a 3 could be seen as "a presence in the middle". That must mean it´s a 4. But if it IS a 4, what do we do with KT? Logjams doesn´t sound like a good move to me. Hmmm. 3. Unload some dead weight. Wiz will always be, regardless of how you feel about him, a streaky-shooting bench player. Cato has proven his fragility guides his game more than his talent, er ... excuse me ... his "potential talent". Carlos may be included in this category also,except he has a short contract, is versatile and is a team motivator. Everyone agrees that Walt, Cato and Los should be sent packing, maybe for players on the last year of their contracts. Regardless of Los talent, which i recognize, the truth is he sees almost no PT with us, and is a tradeable commodity. Now, if the team could accomplish that, and let Hakeem´s contract expire i suppose we would have the cap to sign both Mo and Shandon next year and STILL shop for a high sought out free agent, like webber or mutombo. Say what you want about mutombo, i feel he would fit our team perfectly. But, what can the team afford to do? 1. They can unload the dead weight now. 2. They can hang up the season. 3. They can hold on to Hakeem and just take it from there next summer. 1 and 3 are acceptable. 2, forget it. No way we tank the season. With the right pieces added we are in the playoffs. 4. (a) Or they can shop some people with the proviso that some of their wants can still be met. That means trade some weight, possibly pick up a young defensive forward to compliment the team (PJ Brown-like) and bide time. WHO in the seven hells could be that young forward? Fizer? Swift? One of the Dallas kids? Can´t figure out this one. (b)Or, unload some weight, make non-threatening changes and that may mean something as simple as replacing Cato for a starter(Kandiman-like), Walt for a higher calibre starter (SAR-like).I guess if we actually got someone like SAR that could be considered a "Blockbuster Deal" by most definitions. Intersting that most of your scenarios leave hakeem out of any deals. Wouldn´t it be great if we got SAR and Kandiman themselves? Hey, i guy can dream, can´t he? This one HAS to be the deal Clutch mentioned, the one EVERY rocket fan would be PARTYING if it went down. Upgrades galore WITHOUT giving up dream. (c)Or, a combo that would include contracts on less impact players but are lighter or in fact expire this summer. But include at least one taleneted starter. The most likely scenario. This deal sounds like Miami and with Mason being the talented starter. Notice that the talented starter is not mentioned as being young. Incidentally, from what I hear, any changes that will happen will happen fairly soon. That is within a week or so. PS: CD is a work horse. I hope so, before i go nuts trying to figure this out! ------------------ "Dream another dream, this dream is over... Dream another dream, this dream is over... Dream another dream..." - from the Van Halen song, "The Dream is Over" (Thank you, Freak). Fitting, isn´t it? [This message has been edited by Thanos (edited January 27, 2001).] [This message has been edited by Thanos (edited January 27, 2001).]
Gator, I am not trying to dispute your quote about Dream not going to Miami, but it appears that you are basing that comment on the article from the Miami Harold. Notice that in the article it says "expensive player with years left on his contract". Dream does not fit that discription. He is an aging expensive player, but he would only cost the Heat, for the remainder of the season. Actually he would be the perefect pick up for the Heat. A shot blocking center that can still score and rebound. And his contract expires just in time for the return of Alonzo Morning. The absolute perfect scenario for the Heat. Riley would pick him up in a second as long as it did not mean mortgaging the teams future. From the Miami Harold Sports section: "With the Feb. 22 trade deadline approaching, Heat coach Pat Riley said Friday if he's going to acquire an expensive player with years left on a contract, he isn't interested in veterans late in their careers. Although Riley did not mention names, the Heat would have interest in a player such as Chicago center Brad Miller, 24, who is being shopped. But the Heat likely would not have interest in Charlotte's Derrick Coleman, 33, and Washington's Mitch Richmond, 35 -- among numerous players that teams would like to dump." ------------------ [This message has been edited by crash5179 (edited January 27, 2001).]
Vancouver's likely blowing-up-of-the-team could benefit us. What if the Grizz move Thella for Mike Miller? Helps both teams. (i.e., other brewing deals could negate the loss of SAR, who, in my eyes, as Thanos said, would be cause for "party.") Walt (5 million) and Cato (5.33, BYC 2.67) and draft picks should net Shareef (10 million, 7.5 BYC). Yes, there are better offers out there, which is why I usually post more complicated trade scenarios (Vancouver/Miami/Chicago/us et al). On February 1st, Hakeem/Los straight up for Ceballos/Green/Majerle/Mason/Davis would also work. Provided we waive Majerle right away, I guess. Separate deals might be in the works? Big Ass Country to Chicago for Brad Miller and Tarlac (or Bagaric: I forget who makes 2.5 and has an expiring contract). Vancouver wouldn't even need a draft pick in that case; they'd be happy to wave his contract good-bye. Brand needs a protecting center. Of course, Rox still hold Chicago's draft pick hostage.... ------------------
If we get a 2 it wouldn't affect KT much unless he's traded to get the 2. There aren't too many players in this league that play the 2 and also play PF. ------------------ "No Brain Grant, no trade." -- Typos are a b**** as ZRB is holding Rocket trades hostage while he seeks a brain. Conspiracy theorists say this would explain why Hakeem has yet to be traded...
Gaaaaah! a 4! a 4! ------------------ "Dream another dream, this dream is over... Dream another dream, this dream is over... Dream another dream..." - from the Van Halen song, "The Dream is Over" (Thank you, Freak). Fitting, isn´t it?
Jeez...I've been away three days and another monster thread comes along involving trade talks. Anyway... Here's a couple of guys I'd like to see: Mason- watched him play on NBC last week and he looks totally different than what I used to think of him. Swift- I doubt Vancouver would give him up, but you never know. Chicago's top pick- no telling what it would take to get what should no doubt be #1 or 2 in the draft, but maybe we can pull something off. Fizer- seems more reasonable than the pick, but who do we give up for him...Walt, Cato, Los, pick???. Plus, what position would he be...the 5? No way we would bench Mo with the way he's been playing. He doesn't want to play the 3 either. This is all to confusing for me...I will be happy as long as we don't trade for a guard, or Derrick Coleman. ------------------ "Steve is good. Steve is real good." -- Cleveland's rookie point guard Andre Miller on Rocket rookie point Steve Francis
Could we package Cato & KT to a team and get a ton of picks in return with some scrubs to give us something to trade Min for KG? ------------------
