Another way they know is through victimazation surveys. Call up a random sample and ask if they've been vicitimized by a particular crime in the last year. Victimization surveys generally show higher crime rates than looking at police reports.
Good point, jamcracker. Another I forgot about was social service agencies. Women's shelters and women's agencies deal with un-reported incidents on a daily basis and report the numbers of each case they document even if they cannot report the person or incident directly. ------------------ Me fail English? That's unpossible.
Jeff, I don't doubt your statistics one bit and I vaguely remember seeing such numbers myself. It's a good thing to point out too, but I don't think it spoke to the point that sirhangover was originally making. As far as I understood it, he was voicing a complaint about women who manipulate the system with false accusations of abuse. The ratio of actual incidents of abuse or rape that are reported to the number committed has little to nothing to do with the phenomenon of false accusations. And you can say, 'well that hardly ever happens,' and your probably right that it doesn't happen often (I wonder if they collect statistics on that). But, I don't think you can deny that it does happen and that such behavior is wrong. I don't think it is something to bear a brudge against the whole female gender over, but turning a blind eye to it doesn't help either. As for the rest of sirhangover's tirade, I would like to deny any endorsement inferred or implied. ------------------ RealGM Rockets Draft Obligations Summary Gafford Art Artisan
Actually guys, did you know that a study done by Harvard University concluded that 89.3% of statistics are made up right on the spot? ------------------ "I never did like that "Dr. Stupid""-Monty Burns [This message has been edited by fatty fat fat (edited February 08, 2001).]
There is NO doubt that things get made up - no question. My point is that there are likely far more incidents that are not reported than are reported, therefore far more than are made up. I read recently about a white woman who claimed a black man raped her and she got pregnant as a result. It turned out that she was afraid to tell her religious parents that her boyfriend got her pregnant and she wanted to get an abortion. With the rape, it was deemed acceptable for her to get an abortion. The man spent over a year in prison. So, obviously, it exists. My point is that (and even you see that judging by your comments) sirhangover's ranting was based on more than just victims of this type of false reporting. He was generalizing about a particular "type" of woman. IMO, that says more about him than it does about the people he is describiing. ------------------ Me fail English? That's unpossible.
as far as I'm concerned, 90% of all statistics are garbage! ------------------ Dream a deadly Dream. . .
I find it funny how we treat men and women who essentially share the same views. If it were a woman spouting off like sirhangover then she's just a "liberated woman", you go girl, all that jazz... but because it's a man expressing how he deals with manipulative slimy women who have no self-respect, then he's got "issues". Very interesting... This bias even exists in this thread on the Chmura discussion. If a woman were in her underwear at a party and got raped it's a crime, it's not her fault she was violated. But Chmura does it, gets accused of sexual assault of which he is aqcuitted and all of a sudden he's dirty old man guilty of poor judgement. Chmura should know better than to wear his underwear in a tub with young chicks. It's all his fault, he shouldn't have put himself in that situation. Uh huh... ------------------ "Somebody DO something out there." -Bill Walton
Just one more thing on sexual assault cases. One thing that really irks me is the way the defendant's name gets splattered all over the press but the accuser is never mentioned and protected. They should either name both people or mention none of them. When a person is acquitted in a sex crime case their life is still left in shambles. Everyone always remembers them as the rapist who got off or whatever. I don't want victims to be reluctant to come forward but something should be done about this injustice to innocent people. ------------------ "Somebody DO something out there." -Bill Walton
Kinda like O.J. ------------------ "Knickerbocker Please!" visit www.swirve.com, coming January 20th, the top 10 films of 2000! http://www.geocities.com/clutch34_2000 for great Rocket insight by some of your fellow BBS posters!
Timing : Chmura is a dirty old man with poor judgement. Seriously, a married man, three sheets to the wind in his skivvies in a hot tub with 17-yr olds? That is very poor judgement. ------------------ The Rockets will be the NBA champions. Believe.
I find it funny how we treat men and women who essentially share the same views. If it were a woman spouting off like sirhangover then she's just a "liberated woman", you go girl, all that jazz... but because it's a man expressing how he deals with manipulative slimy women who have no self-respect, then he's got "issues". Very interesting... If a woman called men sleezy, manipulative jerks, I would strongly disagree. I don't consider that the definition of a "liberated woman." A liberated woman is someone who doesn't tolerate abuse simply because a patriarchal society tells her she should. This bias even exists in this thread on the Chmura discussion. If a woman were in her underwear at a party and got raped it's a crime, it's not her fault she was violated. But Chmura does it, gets accused of sexual assault of which he is aqcuitted and all of a sudden he's dirty old man guilty of poor judgement. Chmura should know better than to wear his underwear in a tub with young chicks. It's all his fault, he shouldn't have put himself in that situation. Uh huh... First off, Chmura SHOULD know better. He has been vocal about being a committed family man and a born-again Christian, yet he behaves this way? Shouldn't we expect that a person who talks the talk should walk the walk? If this were Dennis Rodman, no one would be shocked, but Chmura wears his "morality" on his sleeve which makes him not just irresponsible but a hypocrite. Maybe he is innocent of "assault," but his is very much guilty of poor judgement. As for the gender bias, the main difference between female and male victims is that women are victimized by men many, many times more often than the other way around. One in every three women will be sexually abused by the time they are 16!!! That number for men is one in seven and only about 10 percent of cases of sexual abuse of men are perpetrated by women. So, even in male abuse cases, men are most often the abuser. This is one of the most stigmatized issues in America today - sexual abuse - and I have studied it a great deal for a variety of reasons. Just one more thing on sexual assault cases. One thing that really irks me is the way the defendant's name gets splattered all over the press but the accuser is never mentioned and protected. They should either name both people or mention none of them. When a person is acquitted in a sex crime case their life is still left in shambles. This is a serious problem, however, there is a very good reason victims are not identified. First, many victims in abuse cases are underage. By law, the authorities may not release the name of a victim if he/she is a minor. The same applies to the accused. The reason we have this law is that, for many years, victims of sexual crimes were subject to public humiliation and even retaliation when they accused someone of abuse even if they were vindicated in court. Remember the "she was asking for it" argument used to get rapists off so often in the past? It took years of legal battles and legislation to remove some of that from the criminal justice system. Victims families have been some of the most vocal critics of the way victims are treated and they have had a great deal of success lobbying for victims rights. It is unfair that those accused of rape and other sexually related crimes, if acquitted, are treated unfairly by others, but this isn't a result of the system but rather the attitudes of people about crime. Criminals of ALL types are treated this way. It is another example of why the criminal justice system fails so often. How often have we heard of a black man wrongfully accused because he fit the description "black male?" If we want to be good to victims and tough on crime, we have to expect that the public will treat those accused of crimes unfairly even if they are acquitted. Those accused of rape are NO different from any other criminal accused of a crime and acquitted. Think of it this way. Right or not, would you trust your little sister (say she is 7) to be babysat by a man who was accused of sexual assault of a minor but was acquitted? People do what they do because they are concerned for the safety of themselves and their friends and family. We can no more change that than we can change the way people treat each other. ------------------ Me fail English? That's unpossible. [This message has been edited by Jeff (edited February 08, 2001).]
One more thing about women victims and retaliation... There is still a tremendous stigma placed on women in America surrounding rape, but in many countries, women who are raped are taken out and murdered for "bringing dishonor on their families." Women born in America are the luckiest women on the planet and they STILL struggle with gender issues. ------------------ Me fail English? That's unpossible.
There's a pretty big differnce between being raped and being accused of sexual assault. So this is a pretty poor comparison. And yes, he is a dirty old man. ------------------
Yall are just reinforcing my point. That dumb 17 year old ho in a bathtub with an older man in his underwear and she's surprised she got raped? See how it sounds when you turn it around. Is there a difference between being raped and spending most of your life in prison for a rape you didn't commit? Better yet how about to have your life ruined by a false accusation made up by some jealous girlfriend. When a woman is victimized, we need to hide her name and protect her civil rights. When a man is victimized, he just used poor judgement, was in the wrong place at the wrong time, bleh. If those accused of rape are no different from any other persons accused then why is rape the only crime where the adult victim is not named in the press? Quite obviously you are wrong. There is a difference between rape and other crimes. I see no point in releasing the name of someone accused of sexual assault while hiding the name of the accuser. They shouldn't release either name just because of the societal stigma associated with such a case. ------------------ "Somebody DO something out there." -Bill Walton
You're venturing dangerously close to "She had it coming" territory. Besides, Chimura left his house at 3:00 in the morning, went to an after prom party, got into a hot tub with a 17-yr old girl in his underwear, and the probably ended up having consentual sex. Mark Chmura is a dirty old man. He should have known better. He was the one taking advantage of an inebriated teenager, while the girl did make a mistake, the majority of the blame must fall on the shoulders of Chmura. Mark Chmura is not the damn victim here and, contrary to what his lawyer might say, he certainly hasn't shown the courage of a Congressional Medal of Honor winner. ------------------ The Rockets will be the NBA champions. Believe. [This message has been edited by Puedlfor (edited February 08, 2001).]
You've already trampled all over the "he had it coming" territory. You don't know either of these people yet you're making judgements on things you didn't witness. How do you know who was taking advantage of who? According to your reasoning she's as much a dirty little ho as he is a dirty old man. ------------------ "Somebody DO something out there." -Bill Walton
There is no "he had it coming" here. Say it with me, <u>Mark Chmura is not a victim</u>. There is no way to make him a victim. And don't get preachy about making judgements, you made the same type of judgments - just scroll up the page. Chmura was in his house, he got a call that there were drunken girls at a post-prom party, he left his house and went to the post-prom party. In my opinion, he went to the party to have sex, especially since he had a history of flirting with the young woman in question. He went to the party, drank, and then got intimate with a 17yr old. That girl made a mistake(drinking), but Chmura took advantage of her. He's 34, she's 17 - He is a dirty old man. ------------------ The Rockets will be the NBA champions. Believe.
When a woman is victimized, we need to hide her name and protect her civil rights. When a man is victimized, he just used poor judgement, was in the wrong place at the wrong time, bleh. How again was he victimized? It is very likely that with this acquittal, all he will get is a straight shot back to a locker room in the NFL full of guys who think the girl deserved it. She will have to face friends, family and strangers who think she is a manipulative b!tch who probably deserved to be raped. Now, how again does it work that a grown man can have sex with an underaged drunk girl, admit it and somehow be seen as the victim? Am I missing something? How do you know who was taking advantage of who? Now, you honestly expect us all to believe that a 17-year-old drunk girl was so powerful that she could take advantage of an adult professional football player? Huh? Ok, fine. If a guy is falsely accused of rape, he should be exhonerrated. Fine. That is definitely true. The point with Chmura is: 1. He is the adult. He SHOULD have better judgement in that situation. I don't think he should expect to be accused of rape if he didn't rape anyone but he should know that he is in a very inappropriate situation. 2. He is a married man who claims to be a born-again Christian. 3. He fully admits to being with an underaged girl in a compromising position. 4. He very likely had sex with a drunk minor. If he was not drunk, he is the one who SHOULD act responsibly. People don't always do that, but I'm quite sure we all believe they should. 17-year olds do dumb things. It is the nature of being a teenager. He was stupid and put himself in a dangerous situation. She was drunk and that was also a mistake. They both made bad mistakes, but he is the adult. He was sober. That makes him responsible in that situation. Now, as for victims, what about those accused of murder? Should their names be withheld? Should they not face the stigma of being a defendant? What about consentual sex? Chmura lied about not being there then confessed later to being there. How is that different from Bill Clinton other than we know for a fact his sex was consentual? You are drawing a line in a very odd place. Victims and defendants should only be protected when it comes to rape? Women who get in sexually compromising situations are ho's? To quote Mo the bartender, "Ah, you're kinda all over the place there." ------------------ Me fail English? That's unpossible.
Ugh. Even talking about Chmura makes me feel dirty, no more of this for me. ------------------ The Rockets will be the NBA champions. Believe.
Somehow that's like the Census Bureau reporting that 2.3 percent of the population wasn't counted in the last Census-- as George Carlin said, "How do they know that?" ------------------ If I ain't dead already, girl you know the reason why...
