what's worse: Abusing someone who lives with you, or someone who doesn't. Many husbands and fathers believe they can continue abusing behind closed doors with only their wives legal remedies to fear, with often no eye-witnesses other than children. Calling it "hitting a women" is not enough! Family violence is the worst evil, imo, because repetitive abuse behind closed doors is on par with the terrors of torture. At least with other aggravated assaults, the victim usually has a peaceful bed to crawl back into and lick their wounds, along with their legal remedies. [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited February 05, 2001).]
Well, there's a world of difference between hitting your wife ONCE and a repeated cycle of abuse. The first is bad, no doubt, but I don't think the law should necessarily always be involved in such a case. If it can be reasonably dealt with by those involved, then that should be the end of it. However, spousal and child abuse, in my opinion, are some of the worst things you can do to your family. I may be biased because I speak as a victim of long term, repeated abuse from my step-father, but abuse can have life lasting debilitating emotional and psychological effects on its victims. To this day, I can still see in my siblings how it has affected their emotional well being. So to answer your question in a round about way, I think it depends on how badly it can affect its victims. Something like repeated abuse with leave an everlasting mark on its victims. It will leave with them emotional problems that are hard to overcome. But a single minor incident would not come close to this and should be dealt with accordingly. ------------------ I am Jack's raging message.
Freak: I knew you were a closet veggie. Hitting your wife is awful, but I don't think anyone should hit people, period. I'll leave it to someone who was FAR wiser than I: "But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you." Luke 6:27-31 ------------------ Me fail English? That's unpossible.
my girlfriend hits me all the time, and it hurts. i dont think its fair that they sometimes take advantage of us like that. but hitting your wife/girlfriend id say ranks right behind sexually abusing a child and rape. ------------------ http://www.democrats.com
The only reason to his any woman (if you're a man) is if she hits you first. Even then, I think you should give her a warning. ------------------ The whole world we travel with our thoughts, Finding nowhere anyone as precious as one's own self. Since each and every person is so precious to themselves Let the self-respecting harm no other being. -from the Samyutta Nikaya
Rocks-Those were the five options given, it wasn't my scale. How can slapping someone once be worse than dealing heroin which kills, addicts, etc. That's a new one on me. Isn't posession with intent to deliver a felony? Slapping someone is just battery. And slapping a woman worse than killing a dog? Killing someone's pet is like killing someone's family member. A slap is nothing in comparison. ------------------ "Somebody DO something out there." -Bill Walton
Jeff: I agree. I wish I could follw those commands. It sounds a lot easier than it is. I think hitting your wife is awful, and worse than hitting a stranger because a man makes a promise to his wife. When a man and a woman are married, they promise to love each other. I know, some marriages fall apart and it is better for the couple to seperate than it is for them to stay married. Even in those circumstances, people have made promises to each other and are breaking that promise. To hit your wife is abusing the whole institution of marriage. That said, it is just as bad for a woman to hit her husband. ------------------ - Beck Dream...bring back the goggles
Are me and Timing the only ones that want to play this ranking game? I think it says a lot about how you think. We're not talking about what the law says, are we? That's a whole different area. I'm assuming that dealing heroin means you're selling to people that want it. Although I don't condone selling drugs, selling to someone that knows the consequences of their actions just doesn't bother me. If that person wants their life destroyed, fine. How is that worse than slapping a woman? I said I had some trouble not putting killing a dog first. What if someone had a pet cow, and you ended up eating it for dinner? If you want to make a good argument for dogs' lives carrying more weight than cows, pigs, or fish, I really want to hear it.
Its very bad to hit anyone. ------------------ May I have another Snowball Clutch? Please may I? Ill be a good little mole.... I promise.
Timing, I placed the dog killing below the wife hitting, because kill does not have the connotation of intent. It could mean a lot of things. If it had said murder, then I might have moved it up. ------------------ "Of course, everything looks bad if you remember it!" Homer Simpson
I thought all of these scenarios had intent. You can't really accidentally deal heroin or steal a bike. I understand that we're not judging things according to law but I think we put punishments in place to fit a crime. About selling heroin maybe you're right. If someone wants it some might think what's the big deal. Maybe we should judge it on what's a more devastating problem in our country? Spousal abuse or drug addiction. Tough call if you put it that way. I didn't mean to say dogs carry more weight than other animals however if that dog is your pet, then certainly it carries a heck of a lot more weight than some cow or pig. Besides, we use cows and pigs for food but dogs?!? ------------------ "Somebody DO something out there." -Bill Walton
To quote the great Chris Rock: "I would never hit a woman. But I'd shake the **** out of one!" ------------------ Jazzkiller
Hey guys... I thought about not writing this because I didn't want anyone to think less of me, but I will let you in on my tirade. You ARE free to judge, and I understand that this is my side of the story, but it is true, and both my wife at the time and I were told our stories corroborated equally with the courts. Here goes: My wife and I were having problems. I'll definitely not say I wasn't to blame, but we had just had a kid, and I was struggling with a new job, and tensions were harsh. We were yelling at each other a lot, and I chose not to try counseling, or anything. Anyway, I was going to be on a business trip for a month, and she asked me if she could go live with her parent's in Memphis while I was away. While I didn't really like the idea, (her "temporary job" was for two and a half months), I agreed because I thought it would allow her parent's to spend some good time with my son. Anyway, week after week after I returned, the excuses kept coming about why she wasn't coming back that week. (Mother's B-day, didn't give her work two weeks notice, our house wasn't in order, etc., etc.) Mind you, she also has our infant son with her. She finally returns five months later, and her attitude towards our marriage has obviously changed. I'll make it short. Random yellings and screamings over very trivial things. At first, I tried bringing home flowers, and understanding that her parent's did not want her here. (My biggest hardship was when my wife/ex-wife had a very serious illness, her parent's wouldn't help. When I confronted them about it, they turned their anger on me. very manipulative It came close to a head one Sunday night when we were fighting verbally. She started lunging her face towards mine saying "hit me and see where it gets you!" (Expletives deleted) Needless to say, I was completely shocked. I will say I was furious, which will explain why I did this, but I took my finger and touched her nose like you would to someone saying "don't touch me!" when you're a kid. We ended up settling that night amicably after she called the police and learned that while she could leave at any time, she couldn't leave the state with our child until the divorce was agreed upon. The next morning after I had gotten ready for work, I asked her what she was planning on doing that day. She said as soon as I left the house, she was taking my son and leaving for Memphis, again. When I told her that we needed to figure this out and try and find a solution, not to mention what the police told her the night earlier, she said "my lawyer will handle that." When I persisted she started gregorianly saying "say goodbye to your son because you're not going to see him for a long time." Again, I was struggling at my job, so I was afraid to not go. I wanted to resolve this quickly, so my temper went off. I raised my hand and went to slap her on her hip. Right before I did, I caught myself, and I walked away. Unfortunately, this did not satisfy her. While I was holding my year old son, she once again got right into my face and started lunging at me, saying "go ahead, hit me, hit me, see where it gets you" (again expletives deleted). And I don't know, I snapped. My head came down and head butted her. As soon as it happened, she said "now you've done it you son-of-a-b!tch" and called 911. Knowing what I had just done, I just sat on the couch and waited for police to arrive. They did, and I went to jail. Later, I found out that she had been telling people on another BBS that I had been beating her for quite some time before that. All I can say is that was a complete lie, and something that I found out later that she was concocting so that she could get full custody of our son. Six months later we got divorced, and she remarried another man the same day. A bartender she had been seeing for some time, who I only found out about six weeks prior to the divorce. Am I saying that hitting a woman is right? Hell no. But I do think that my ex-wife used public perception and betrayal to her advantage, and I think I was played more like a fool. If you hate me for what I did, so be it. I did get caught up in the heat of the moment, and it was wrong. But I don't think I'm a bad person. I've never struck any other woman in my life (other than a couple of spats earlier with my sister, and those were just slaps.) Anyway, I encourage any opinions. Thanks. ------------------ "I never did like that "Dr. Stupid""-Monty Burns
fatty: It was pretty brave of you to explain that. I don't think anyone would say you were right for what you did. It sounds like even you know that. However, we are human and we fail. That is the nature of humanity. As someone once said, "I did the best I could at the time. When I knew better, I did better." One of the keys to understanding and dealing with these types of situations is to put them in their proper perspective. No job. No stress. No argument. Nothing is worth your son or your freedom. You obviously see that and that is truly admirable. Whatever problems you and your ex may have had, take heart that there is no fault to be had by anyone. You both made mistakes. That is obvious. It isn't what happened that matters, only what you do to be a better man as a result. Every problem and every failure is not really a failure but an opportunity to grow. If you become a different person, you won't attract that into your life again. I believe that we bring into our lives people and situations from which we must learn some lesson or lessons. If we don't learn those lessons the first time, we get them again and again and again. Each time, the messages comes on stronger than the last until it gets completely out of control. It is life's way of slapping us into reality and teaching us something we must learn. For some, it is relationship problems. For others, it is an addiction to drugs, alcohol or something else. The symptoms are different but the problem is the same: a refusal to learn and grow. I believe that we have the choice to avoid the pain of traumatic situations if we learn our lessons before it gets out of hand but we are all stubborn. Some of us (me especially!) more than others. I hope that you are able to reconcile your feelings on the situation and put it behind you if you haven't already. I hope you are able to learn and grow from it and not be bitter. If that doesn't change you, nothing will and you will wind up right back in another relationship with similar problems whether you want to or not, except this time it may even get worse. You always hear those stories of people triumphing over adversity. "They finally hit rock bottom" always seems to precede "before they were able to find real happiness" or "and they never recovered." Which line follows each of our "hitting rock bottom" moment is up to each of us. Thank you for sharing your situation. It took guts. ------------------ Me fail English? That's unpossible.
fatty is the same man who spoke up about loving to smoke in an anti-smoking thread. You are the most upfront person on the board, esposing yourself like this. And to me, that means you are the most trust worthy, too. cheers!
fatty, it wasn't my intention to make the thread personal, though it is fine it became so. I figured most people wouldn't want to get too specific. It certainly sounds like hitting her was a tactical error on your part as far as the divorce and child custody; but as I had said, there are things that are more hurtful than physical violence and from your story it sounds like you endured a few of those. If you made a list of transgressions that took place in the whole story, it sounds as though the head-butt would rank fairly low. I hope you still have opportunities to see your son. On a lighter note, I had tried to put in my ranking, but apparently it hadn't showed up, so here it is again: Stealing from your wife Stealing a bike Killing a dog Hitting your wife Hitting a sibling Hitting a friend Hitting a stranger Evading taxes Killing your wife for infidelity Cheating on your wife Dealing heroin I don't even know what stealing from my wife would mean: what's mine is hers and what's hers is mine. As for the discussion on dog-killing, I wasn't assuming the dog was a pet, though I suppose it is likely enough. It is ranked higher than stealing a bike because, when it is a pet or a competent working dog, it is often a greater loss to the owner than a bike would be. Evading taxes is higher just because I hate how poorly punished white-collar crimes are. As for hitting people, I think the closer you are to someone, the more forgiveable it is to give them a slap. What could induce a person to slap someone who was a stranger? How mad can a stranger really make you? It says something about you if you're slapping random people in the street. I took ignoring your wife out of my list completely, because I don't know what I mean. If it is a single incident (like the slap is a single incident), it's not a big deal. If it is a pattern of constant neglect, that is significantly more serious. As for infidelity, when you marry, you promise to be faithful but you do not promise not to kill one another. Obviously, killing someone is bad, but at least you did not consciously, willingly, and specifically promise not to do it. As for heroin, I don't care about other people's freedom to kill themselves. There are other crimes I would put higher than this, but they don't happen to appear on my list. Francis3422: I totally agree. ------------------ RealGM Rockets Draft Obligations Summary Gafford Art Artisan
Where in the hell is 'Rooting for the Knicks' on that list? I would also like to submit, 'Registering a domain name and claiming it as your own even though all of the content stored at that domain name belongs to Clutch'. Sorry I don't have anything serious to add to this thread. Interesting reading though. ------------------ If I ain't dead already, girl you know the reason why...
Stealing from your wife - ???? Stealing a bike - Not in the top 5 Killing a dog - This is hurtful sh*t 4th worse Hitting your wife - 3rd worse Hitting a sibling - not too too bad. . it is life Hitting a friend- not too too bad. . it is life Hitting a stranger almost As Bad as Hitting Wife Evading taxes - hhhmmm since I don't like how they spend my taxes . . . . Killing your wife for infidelity - I think this is THE WORSE Cheating on your wife - moral issue Dealing heroin - This is Second Worse Rocket River ------------------
River, I thought we were talking about moral issues. ------------------ RealGM Rockets Draft Obligations Summary Gafford Art Artisan
I think it's several places below 'Rooting for the Jazz' ------------------ The whole world we travel with our thoughts, Finding nowhere anyone as precious as one's own self. Since each and every person is so precious to themselves Let the self-respecting harm no other being. -from the Samyutta Nikaya
