Capitalism is the only condition where "poor" people can work hard and pull themselves out of poverty. The rights to private property is the cornerstone of any free capitalistic civil society. Its what people work for, it motivates people to turn off the idiot box and get a J-O-B or two if they are really inclined. Heck they might even have an idea that allows them to start their own business and heaven forbid get wealthy.....gasp! You name me one other form of society that fosters the creativity and individualism that capitalism does? Socialism....see modern day Europe, broke and crumbling due to a bloated system and the people are content with a nanny state Dictatorship....Cuba? Iran? North Korea? the list goes on Communism.....USSR anyone? This whole notion of Keynesian economics is sure fire way to disaster. If you don't believe me then just look at Great Britain and its current condition. The main reason people in a capitalistic society like the USA have the "so called" economic problems they have is simply mismanagement of their money and bad choices. This is perpetuated by a society that is tailored by the government to make the people more dependent upon IT then THEMSELVES. People are taught to live on credit, live in excess, demand things now instead of postponing pleasure, take a second mortgage out on your house instead of getting a second job and saving your money.....you get my point. Fact is we are the wealthiest country in the world for a reason....CAPITALISM! Could we manager our money better.....ABSOLUTELY! But the two really have nothing in common.....or maybe they do, they both are personal choices. Under any other condition the people really don't have any, but are just charges of the state. Here is a great quote by one of my favorite Presidents who put it best... "Property is the fruit of labor....property is desirable....is a positive good in the world. That some should be rich shows that others may become rich, and hence is just encouragement to industry and enterprise. Let not him who is houseless pull down the house of another, but let him labor diligently and build one for himself, thus by example assuring that his own shall be safe from violence when built." Abraham Lincoln ~ March 21, 1864
Yeah, well if we were all perfect Christians, capitalism or probably any poltical system would be great for all Americans and all the world's people. Many of the more established religions support political systems that take care of the world's people taking into the account the lack of perfect Christianity. They don't try to use the concept of Christian charity as an excuse to defund the welfare state. Does this mean that all of human problems are solved if everyone has enough food, access to health care and some free time? Of course not.
Thank you very much for making the point I have been trying to hammer to these folks. Capitalism is not evil, people are. They look to exploit and manipulate others in every form of economy from socialism to feudalism. Capitalism only ensures that everyone gets a fair chance at prosperity. Rep point for you sir!
Instead of realizing the error in your ways of assailing the faith of others, you more deeply entrench yourself in it. You just continue to make assertions of how I am a bad Catholic. I am also divorced and swear like a sailor. Anything else about me you would like to tear down in order to make yourself feel more righteous? You went to all those years of Catholic school and managed to completely miss the point of not judging others. Bravo.
Funny how the Scandinavian nations are broke and crumbling yet remain some of the best countries in terms of standard of living. Which is not to say the countries are ideal (I've been monitoring Sweden's privacy law and it's almost equivalent to what I am sure a modern-day Stasi would pull), but it would give you pause as to the ideal state of capitalism and how resistant some seem to be willing to change it. oh, it's the gouvernment that's been promoting consumerism? I had the craziest idea that it might be the corporations that are playing a major role in that...what with them paying millions of dollars to hook and sink innocent Americans into spending beyond their means, then cowering behind the gouvernment when they themselves spend too much. It is absolutely despicable how free market forces have betrayed America...and yet some still hold on to them in some naive, almost idealistic hope. Give it up. Capitalism is the best system we have but it's long past the due date for us to actively look into changes rather then being stubborn and protecting the system. Given how it conflicts with the Christian doctrine that founded this nation, I would think these changes should happen sooner rather then later.
Well said, but they have been brainwashed from birth by the corporate media and their wealthy owners. Witness the loyalty of employees like TJ, Basso and others to the system.
If you point out that its people that corrupt Capitalism then wouldn't it just be as logical to say that is people that corrupt Socialism or feudalism? If humans were angels ideally any economic system would work perfectly.
You are right and that is why Capitalism delivers the best economic results because it is based on people making FREE VOLUNTARY economic decisions with minimal interference by the State. All the other forms of economy you listed are more easily controlled by the goverment or a small group of people. Capitalism supplies us with all the basic needs of a standard living and then provides the incentive to be creative and innovate in order to prosper. On paper all the other types of economy are sound and look great but historically when they have placed in practical use, each and everyone of them has failed to match the results of capitalism. To put it in better words capitalism saves us from our own evil. When you make good money and have your basic needs provided then it is less likely you will steal from others or envy their property. Isn't that in the Bible? This was beautifully put into words by one of greatest presidents and statesmen, mentioned earlier by OddsOn.
And if you make "bad" money? Relying on the example of American capitalism, I suppose now would be the time to mention the judicial system, in passing... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States
Care to explain how many of those are convicted on THEFT or ROBBERY vs possession of mar1juana and weed? Come on your bogus attempt to derail my point is a failure. Capitalist countries have the lowest rate of thieves that steal to feed everyday needs. Perhaps you should go to the third world dictatorships and see how fast you get robbed in broad daylight by little kids. Poverty brings out the worse in people and lack of oppurtunity will make them desperate.
Isn't it telling that America, which has more tolerant laws on drug use then China, still jails more people? Mind you, this can be attributed to police efficiency BUT the difference is so stark that to suggest that capitalism (of which can we not agree, in one of it's purest forms can be found in America and of which, in any case, a slightly abridged version is available in China as well ) rids one of the desire for crime is deluded. It amplifies the need for crime, demands a more complex organization a la Casa Nostra. It crafts a system of overwhelming demand that makes it impossible to fight and creates a constant barrage of crime in supply countries like Mexico, that vie to satisfy those who have been raised in a system of greed by killing mercilessly. It is also no coincidence that America has a much higher homicide rate vis a vis more socialistic leaning countries like Canada and Norway. NOW, I am not saying that crime rates are higher then those of Third World nations for things like petty theft (upon which you rely on anecdotal evidence, presumably gathered from Slumdog Millionaire and City of God type movies...but I digress); but the arguments compliment one another. Colonial exploitation in the name of capitalism and of it's predecessor Mercantilism is a large reason WHY Third World nations are Third World nations. Capitalism and the unequal distribution of goods worldwide is what is causing this poverty and lack of opportunity; can we not agree that it is VERY hard for someone born in the slums of Africa to be socially mobile? Can we not agree that the system we have crafted makes it very hard for Asian sweatshop workers to achieve the same economical power as American union workers? There is a VERY unequal distribution of goods here and while it is true that no system will satisfy everyone, the distribution is so laughably skewed that only a small minority of us can have the privileged ability to waste our times defending and attacking capitalism. I have argued before that capitalism is the best system we have (especially from our rose-tinged Western perspective), but it is a broken one that should be thrown away as quickly as possible and modified as one should wish and not coddled as some who still defend "free market forces" do. I have asserted this about ten times and hopefully one time it will stick with someone who disagrees. The system is nothing but a system. It was created by man to satisfy man and should be promptly unmade and remade as we should wish. Too bad the entrenched corporate giants will never allow this, but I am hoping more and more people realize this so that changes have to be made. If religion aids me in this quest, then so much the better. As an aside, we are about one-billion-Chinese-deciding-to-live-the-average-American-lifestyle away from sucking this planet dry of everything.
why does jesus have to do with anything? is he alive now, on earth telling you what to do? People need to use religion to support they argument.
As we seen though with Capitalism while it might not be easily controlled by the state it can be controlled through monopoly and collusion. The power of the market can be just as oppressive and harmful to individuals when it is becomes concentrated. Consider that there was a reason why many of the 19th Centuries greatest Capitalists were called Robber Barons. Practically yes I agree that Capitalism is a better economic system than Socialism largely having to do with that given the complexity of any large economy it is impossible to try to control it. I also agree with you on the importance of private property as an individual liberty but I wouldn't attach a morality to it as you seem to be saying. Capitalism doesn't discourage us from stealing or envy especially since Capitalism is dependent on greed and ambition. Again note that some of the greatest Capitalist where called Robber Barons for good reason. As I noted earlier for a perfectly functioning Capitalist system you would need people to be angels but that goes for any economic system.
You've made a fantastic point here. The evil is in the people and not the system. I agree with you wholeheartedly. So, knowing this, do you design a system which is FUELED by the "evil" in people or do you design one which MITIGATES this "evil"?
Acts chapter 5 has a very good look into Christian economics, starting with the end of Acts chapter 4- 34There were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned lands or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales 35and put it at the apostles' feet, and it was distributed to anyone as he had need. 36Joseph, a Levite from Cyprus, whom the apostles called Barnabas (which means Son of Encouragement), 37sold a field he owned and brought the money and put it at the apostles' feet. 1Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, also sold a piece of property. 2With his wife's full knowledge he kept back part of the money for himself, but brought the rest and put it at the apostles' feet. 3Then Peter said, "Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4Didn't it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn't the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied to men but to God." 5When Ananias heard this, he fell down and died. And great fear seized all who heard what had happened. 6Then the young men came forward, wrapped up his body, and carried him out and buried him. 7About three hours later his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. 8Peter asked her, "Tell me, is this the price you and Ananias got for the land?" "Yes," she said, "that is the price." 9Peter said to her, "How could you agree to test the Spirit of the Lord? Look! The feet of the men who buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out also." 10At that moment she fell down at his feet and died. Then the young men came in and, finding her dead, carried her out and buried her beside her husband. 11Great fear seized the whole church and all who heard about these events. I have bolded the points- 1. Christian economics is simply generosity through individual love for one another. This is what Jesus commanded His followers to do (love one another) The moment you go to a 'law' you leave love. Christian economics cannot be legislated by law. 2. Christian giving must be in the power of the individual. Economics that place a power or law over the giver remove faith. The government of a Christian comes from within, in the heart, and a Christian must be governed by God's Spirit so it will be honest, loving and generous. 3. God holds Christians accountable. Regardless of the political system a Christian deals with money and resources by love, grace and truth. The dictates of a government actually have no bearing on the love and generosity of a Christian. In fact, regardless of the politics and the laws love can only be revealed by free choices. Neither Socialism nor Capitalism reflect the free choice of love. And in practice both Socialism and Capitalisim reflect the power of corporatists to control both governments, economies and people. Christianity has nothing to do with control and everything to do with love.
Good points Rhester. Also think about tithing. If you dont do it because you WANT to, you are defeating the purpose which is giving back to The Lord.
