And when will YOU come to the realization that McGrady has a bad back and take a bunch of shots, and Kobe wants to be the star of a team and could face jail time? What makes you think Kobe would become the next Jordan? He has Shaq and hasn't become the next Jordan, but he would with Yao!? Francis is an All-Star, he's a winner, he's the franchise, he's as good as the top tier players, he isn't going anywhere.
Mc Grady is a superstar but he is not a good fit with us or with any team with offensive talents. He is not really selfish but he is not effective if he does not have the ball. He takes a lot of shots and he creates by himself. He needs to be the center of the offense with teammates who do the dirty work, defense, setting picks, rebound ... Put him in another situation and he won't be at his best.
So what's your point? This trade would never happen, so why even talk about it? Shaq is better than Yao, so I guess Yao just sucks.
id rather have stevie, though not quite as good, you know hes giving all his effort, day in and day out, and has real love for the game and for houston. none of which can be said about tmac.
Please don't bash!! Just an idea, although it would never happen. But tell me what you think Houston trades: PG Steve Francis (21.0 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 6.2 apg in 41.0 minutes) C Kelvin Cato (4.5 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 0.3 apg in 17.1 minutes) PF Eddie Griffin (8.6 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 1.1 apg in 24.5 minutes) Houston receives: SF Tracy McGrady (32.1 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 5.5 apg in 39.4 minutes) PF Drew Gooden (12.5 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 1.2 apg in 26.8 minutes) C Andrew DeClercq (4.7 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 0.7 apg in 17.2 minutes) Change in team outlook: +15.2 ppg, -0.7 rpg, and -0.2 apg. Orlando trades: SF Tracy McGrady (32.1 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 5.5 apg in 39.4 minutes) PF Drew Gooden (12.5 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 1.2 apg in 26.8 minutes) C Andrew DeClercq (4.7 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 0.7 apg in 17.2 minutes) Orlando receives: PG Steve Francis (21.0 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 6.2 apg in 81 games) C Kelvin Cato (4.5 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 0.3 apg in 73 games) PF Eddie Griffin (8.6 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 1.1 apg in 77 games) Change in team outlook: -15.2 ppg, +0.7 rpg, and +0.2 apg. TRADE ACCEPTED There were BYC players involved in this trade, so this trade is subject to the BYC provisions of the CBA. Due to Houston and Orlando being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Houston and Orlando had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out unless trade exceptions were used for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement. Orlando would never do it, but it solves their problem at center with Cato. Francis can play at the shooting guard. This leaves us with moochie at the point so i would propose doing this next trade with indiana. Houston trades: SG Cuttino Mobley (17.5 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 2.9 apg in 41.7 minutes) SF Bostjan Nachbar (2.1 ppg, 0.8 rpg, 0.2 apg in 5.5 minutes) Houston receives: PF Al Harrington (12.2 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 1.5 apg in 30.1 minutes) PG Jamaal Tinsley (7.8 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 7.5 apg in 30.6 minutes) Change in team outlook: +0.4 ppg, +4.8 rpg, and +5.9 apg. Indiana trades: PF Al Harrington (12.2 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 1.5 apg in 30.1 minutes) PG Jamaal Tinsley (7.8 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 7.5 apg in 30.6 minutes) Indiana receives: SG Cuttino Mobley (17.5 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 2.9 apg in 73 games) SF Bostjan Nachbar (2.1 ppg, 0.8 rpg, 0.2 apg in 14 games) Change in team outlook: -0.4 ppg, -4.8 rpg, and -5.9 apg. TRADE ACCEPTED Due to Houston and Indiana being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Houston and Indiana had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement. houston lineup: Center- Ming/Declerq/Gooden Power Foward- Gooden/Taylor/Braggs Small Foward- Jackson/Griffin/Pike Shooting Guard- McGrady/Pike/Jackson Point Guard- Tinsley/Moochie/Wilks
RocksMillenium, So you're saying that since we're 4-1 against the 5 (arguably) worst teams in the league, we shouldn't touch the squad? So you're saying we shouldn't trade Mobley for Kobe, JJ for Marion, Griffin for Zach Randolph, or Boki for Al Harrington? I believe there is a very big gap between T-Mac/Kobe and Francis. It's the same difference that exists between Shaq and Yao Ming or Duncan and Yao Ming. I would DEFINITELY be more comfortable with McGrady shooting too much that havign the same worries about Mobley, MoT, Griffin, or JJ. Francis too, but to a much much lesser degree. Look at the talent T-Mac has been playing with and his recent numbers. I'm telling you, put T-Mac on a team with Yao, and he'll be as good as Kobe. Put Kobe with Yao, and Kobe will be betetr than he already is right now. Let's not forget that both Kobe and T-Mac are STILL younger than Steve Francis. So for those of you saying that Francis will BECOME better, think about how much better these guys can become too. What's happening? Give it one more summer, and these 2 guys will start to poke at MJ's title. They need ONE more summer to improve their range and 3-pt shot. This summer, they were both unable to work on their games, but they will, because these guys, despite their AMAZING performances, are still gym rats and LOVE to work on their games. Francis is an All Star, a winner, and our franchise. Kobe is a Superstar future hall of famer, has won 3 rings, and is the Lakers franchise as much as Francis is the Rockets' franchise. T-Mac has yet to win, but who can blame him? Grant Hill has been eating 12M per season while recovering the last 3 seasons, and McGrady has been forced to deal with every single defense trying to lock him down every single night. Give him a dominant big man, and he'll be almost up there near Kobe. Is anyone ACTUALLY saying they'd rather have Francis than Kobe or T-Mac? If so, I find that ri-God damn-diculous. Think about this: If Francis averages the numbers that McGrady and Kobe have been averaging, we would consider him in his prime. On the other hand, everyone fully expects Kobe and T-Mac to improve on their past seasons.
Because this is a message board where you discuss Game Action and Roster moves, whether past, present, or potential (future) trades. Shaq is better than Yao right now, but we wouldn't trade Yao for Shaq. Therefore, the same rules don't apply. However, T-Mac and Kobe are younger than Francis and just as (if not more) likely to improve, unlike Shaq vs. Yao.
I agree with Sane's take. I would trade SF for TMac. TMac has already proven he's a greater player than SF in my eyes. He's struggling at the beginning of the season, big deal. I would trade SF for Kobe if it wasn't for the legal stuff. Not that either of those deals would happen. I'm actually pretty happy with the team's roster at the moment(well, if you throw in MoT that is...), but I wouldn't hesitate to favor a trade that would make us better.
How much more has TMac accomplished than Steve. Exiting the first round of the playoffs in the oh so tough Eastern Conference.
Bam. Right on. Steve always plays hard and has said repeatedly that he wants to finish his career in Houston. T-Mac doesn't even look like he wants to finish his career.
Tracy Mcgrady, u kidding me Now i'm a big time Steve homer, but damn, he is not a top 10 player in the NBA right now. Tracy Mcgrady is top 5 (the first 5 games of this season notwithstanding ) But then again, these last five games are the only reason anybody would even think about proposing such a trade to begin with. It would have been laughable at the beggining of the season from the Magic's point of view. Trade a 6-9 32, 6, 5 guy who is actually younger for a 63 21, 6, 6 guy who doesnt play defense.......so yeah, I would do it. Wouldnt think twice about it. not even for a second.
I guess Steve just can't win on this board. It's bad enough that his name is always thrown around in trade post. Steve is considered by the rest of the League to be one of the top point guards. Now, we're getting post that says that Lebron and Melo, who have 2 weeks of NBA experience, are on a higher tier of player than Steve. Baron Davis? He's has a bad back, previous knee problems and he just got into shape and people would trade Steve for him?? Even Jason Kidd, I wouldn't do. He shoots just as much as Steve, without as much success, his turnover numbers are nearly as high as Steve, and what did he do when he was in the West?? Maybe if Steve ever leaves, he would then be appreciated.
Thank you very much for explaining everything I'm trying to say in one sentence. Steve is great, T-Mac and Kobe are better. Rockets are great, and can be great, but the ceiling can be higher. You ask how much more T-Mac has accomplished? Well I'd say they SHOULD accomplish equal achievements considering being in the West counters having a 12M dollar handicap on the Magic's salary cap (Grant Hill). Listen, don't sit here and tell me you wouldn't trade Steve in a package that brought back T-Mac, Kobe, Duncan, or Garnett. If you're telling me you wouldn't, then I bow out of this conversation.
That was all I needed to read. Francis is better suited for this team than T-Mac. T-Mac just needs to realize that it's a small world after all.
Since you people love to talk about Rockets trade talk which i think is ridiculous. Why not just trade Steve Francis. Cuttino Mobley, Yao Ming, Jim Jackson, Kelvin Cato, Moochie Norris, and everyone else on there lineup for Kobe and German National team. I mean they have a good nucleaus to work around just like everyone is seeming to think..............
