Actually I meant FG%. Mo's is better, for his career and last year. And as you admit JH probably has a better post game, that means Mo converts more of his outside shots. Mo's range goes to 20 feet, I don't think JH is as good a shooter from there. Hey, I'll take .6 blocks over .3 in fewer minutes. Not a major factor, true, but not insignificant. JH 2.0 apg versus MT 1.4 last year (even less difference factoring in MPG) is certainly no more significant than the block difference. For the most part blocks are asked out of the 4 spot as least as much as assists are. Additionally, JH turns the ball over more than Mo, 2.7 to 2.0 over their career, and 2.2 to 2.0 last year. JH A/TO is a little better, but it still hovers are 1.0 for his career. JH is the better post up, true, but with Yao and Tmac how often would that ever be used. The more important offensive role is a spot up shooter, and Mo is a little bit better at this. I give you JH is the better rebounder, Mot best season was 6.4RPG, JH worst (including last year) was 7.0. It is a significant difference Mo IMO is about as effective position defender as JH. I would not trade Howard for Battie unless McInnis came along for the TE. Ask yourself if the Rockets are better with Howard or those two players assuming other manovers for a 1/back-up 5 have not been promising. In sum, overall, yes JH is the better player. But consideirng his age, other PFs, length of contract, the specific roles we will ask of a 4 (not posting up much), if it takes JH to make a move to solidify two more glaring weaknesses, then I move him.
Most gm's would rate Howard higher than Taylor. They're kinda similar, but Howard gives a more consistent effort on offense and defense.
No, I wouldn't give up Howard for Battie and Mcinnis. And are the Cavs shopping Mcinnis? I thought they said they want to keep him.
First, let me reply to the assumption that being a better low post player means he must dwindle offensively the further he goes from the basket. I made the joke of Juwan making more three pointers than Mo, based on the fact that Juwan is a good shooter aswell. It is one of the reasons, many feel we'll finally have that PF that'll spread the floor for Yao Ming, while providing a better post game/rebounding than Mo. Since you consider the At/to ratio just a marginal difference, and compare it to the blocks per game, I say just toss in the fact of which PF is the better rebounder. Afterall, rebounds is what's most important and most required of a starting PF than assists and blocks. As for the age factor, I'm still not seeing the significant improvement. Juwan's 31, Tony's 28 and McGinnis is 30. And I must point out one contridiction in your post. I'm referring to the statement you made over JH's post game, suggesting it'll be used little in a T-mac/Yao oriented offense and shooters are what's important. Well, McGinnis, the player you wish to obtain in exchange for JH, has had a career of being a streaky 3pt shooter. And his FG percentage is up to par with Lue's. Factor in the age, why trade Juwan and his combined productivity of decent position defense, consistent offense, for Tony battie, who only brings mediocre defense and blocking, which is a decline in the PF position(Cato) of last year? And McGinnis, a PG older than Lue? The way I see it, there's a greater chance Lue can give us what McGinnis would, than Battie giving us what Juwan would. So, yes, why take the risk?
2 things to consider: How many minutes will Howard play next season and will he produce more than Battie and Mcinnis would? Howard and Taylor can only play the 4. If they're going to split the minutes at the 4, I'm expecting a big drop in production from Howard. For most of his career, he has played 37-40 minutes a game. With Mo here, he's going to be looking at 25-28 minutes. I don't think Taylor would accept playing less than 20 minutes a game. He's also going to have to adjust from being the 1st or 2nd option on all of his previous teams to being the 3rd or maybe 4th option on this team. With the big reduction in minutes and the adjustment he has to make on offense, his stats should be around 12 points and 6 rebounds. Compare that to what Battie and McInnis could give the team: McInnis should get about 30 minutes, 11 points and 6 assists, 2.5 rebounds. Battie should get 26 minutes (13 at the 5, 13 at the 4), 7 points, 6.5 rebounds, 1 block a game. Taylor can now play about 35 minutes at the 4 and with that much playing time, he should be able to average around 15/6.5 Plus, the perimeter defense is improved since McInnis is a better defender than Lue and has better size (6'4). The interior defense should also be improved with a second shotblocker, which I think is huge for this team. And if McInnis and Battie don't work out we can always let them go in 2 years when their contracts expire. If Howard doesn't work out, we're pretty much stuck with him and his contract for the rest of his career.
I thought we can't trade the T.E. with any of our player involved? You can only trade the T.E. with a future pick. actually I was thinking about a Howard + Pike for Battie + McInnis trade. they're not high on Battie and they just aquired Snow, so I think both Battie & McInnis are available. JH surely is a servicealbe PF (especially in the East) and I think the Cavs will bite on this one if we offer JH + Pike instead of Taylor. Cavs' line-up: Illgauskas, Howard, James, Wagner, Snow (or re-sign E. Williams to start at 3 and Move James to 2, Wagner off bench) imo, a playoff team in the East. Roxs' line-up: Yao Ming, (Battie), Spoon T. Battie, Taylor, Padgett Jackson, Nachbar, Griffin McGrady, Gaines McInnis, Lue, Wilks Battie could provide what Cato did last season and I think T-Mac + McInnis is an upgrade of SF3+Cat. imo, 4th-5th seed in the West.
Ok, two things: 1. Jeff McInnis IS NOT on the block. Paul Silas already said yesterday on the news that McInnis is still gonna be our starting point guard, with Snow as a backup, so any trade suggestions involving McInnis aren't gonna happen. If you want a guard from Cleveland it would probably end up being Wagner, but if Steve's style didn't fit the Rox system then his surely wouldn't. 2. If anyone, the Cavs would want Taylor probably, because we need a SCORER. Right now we have enough defense on our team. What we need is a bruiser who can put the ball in the hoop, and Taylor is a much better option for that than Howard.
McInnis may not be on the block, but he is more of a luxury (with Lebron, Snow, & Wagner) compared to their dreadfull PF situation now that Boozer left. I challenge someone to find a PF the caliber of JH or MT that Cleveland could get for anything less than McInnis & Battie. Same situation for the Rockets. I like JH, I like MoT, I'd rather have them share the 4 duties and jettison Spoon. But they, with Spoon (an OK if overprice back-up to either), are a luxury compared to our PG situation and back-up C position. It takes a little of two teams strengths (in terms of depth), to significanlty lessen THE major weaknesses in those teams. BTW the TE can be used for a player, a single player. So the TE can be traded for McInnis, and in a seperate (but agreed upon deal) Battie can be traded for JH. Or MoT could be traded for McInnis and Battie strait up if the teams were so inclined. I think in the latter deal Cleve would be more inclined to only put Eric Williams in not McInnis. That is an OK deal, but then we still need to find another PG or combo guard this offseason. Hmm, I agree JH helps spread the floor, but certainly no more than MoT does, seeing MoT' slightly superior FG% from the outside and range to 20 feet. Also, I like Lue, but I see McInnis as a compliment. They are very different players despite some similarities in FG% and that fact both are good enough shooters to keep you honest. McInnis is a combo guard and can also play back-up 2 along with starting 1. He is the kind of player that gives you the option to play big or small, and maximize match-up advantages on the floor. Lue is a solid, pure (shrimpy) 1. Also the age comparison is for MoT versus JH-- since we were debating which one to trade from the Rox perspective. Five years down the line, still within the peak of Yao/Tmac, who is more likely to have an important role? It sure won't easy or cheap to find alternative for the 4 by then, assuming the Rockets are one of the top couple teams and are over the cap--fairly certain assessments I would think.
Howard for McInnis and Battie, I'll do it in a heart beat. 3 men rotation on the front line: Yao, Battie, Taylor (with Spoon the occasional sub) 5 men rotation on the perimeter: McGrady, McInnis, Jackson, Lue, Nachbar (with Pike the occasional sub) Very good lineup.
No way does Jeff prevent Howard from playing 30mpg, especially not for Mo's sake. Jeff has definitely never been the type of coach that sits a better productive player just to please another player. Why in the world would you give a player that has the offensive perimeter skills of Mo, a better post up game, and better rebounder, gauranteed to get you 7-8 rebounds which was missed a hell of a lot more and is a bigger improvement and need from our PF spot last year than blocked shots. As for I said, no way Juwan gets less than 30mpg, so I'm seeing 12-14ppg and no less than 7.5 boards. Compared to what Battie and McInnis takes and leaves, you give us Battie, a lesser Cato in place of Juwan and his inside and out offense, plus rebounding. And McInnis, a streaky mediocre shooter from the 3, which is just as needed as perimeter defense is, and since on defense we'll have T-mac on the perimeter, I see a 3pt shot being bigger importance from our pg than his defense, since on O, T will be busy driving it in. Again, a lesser cato at defense and shot blocking, how is that "huge" for this team? Considering we sorely needed more dependable scorers/shooters at our 4 spot last year, not to mention more rebounds. There's a bigger probability that McInnis and Battie won't work out for us or be more beneficial to this T-mac and Yao oriented offense than Juwan would. Juwan has been consistent throughout his career, no matter what team he's been on, barring any injuries, he WILL work out perfectly for this current roster and team.
Yao,Battie, Taylor and spoon is a decline from Yao, Cato, Taylor and spoon. That 4 men rotation on the perimeter is as much an improvement as McGrady, Mike James, Jackson and Lue, which we could get without giving up Juwan.
JH got 7 boards in 36 minutes last year and he didn't have a Yao on the glass. If he gets 7PG for the Rockets I would be quite happy. You know, my ideal is to trade neither MoT nor JH, and trade Spoon if possible. But at a minimum the Rockets need Mike James or Damon Jones, about equal from the perimeter (enough to keep you honest) as McInnis but neither as proven or as complete. But I would be OK with the 1 spot with one of those guys sharing the load with Lue--it just doesn't seem like our front office has major interest in these two based on the comments the other day. I think if we brought in another servicable 1 with decent size (e.g., DJ/MJ) I would even be Ok, but not thrilled, with having Mot/JH share the back-up C duties as well. But right now we have addressed neither the PG spot nor back-up C, and if it is between shoring up neither or trading a PF--even if Mot or JH--I trade that PF.
Well, hey, look at this way. Yao will most preferably be playing 32-34mpg next year, all we need from our back up C is about 14 solid minutes. JH can spell Yao here and there, he has the low post game and decent positional defense to be solid as a backup at the 5. He won't be great defensively as Cato was last year, he won't block shots as Cato did last year, BUT he will get a few rebounds and work on his opponent on the offensive end. In a league where Greg Ostertag is sought after by competitive teams, such as the Kings to replace Vlade Divac, JH is not a GREAT liability in the back up center role. Having a backup center, with a good low post game, that can keep there defenders honest by making them come 15-20ft out from under the basket to gaurd him, isn't so bad for 14 minutes. And this situation, would give Mo those 20mpg, 20 for JH at PF, 14 at the C. However, I wouldn't mind obtaining another decent backup at the 5 spot, for those just incase situations. But, I'm definitely not giving up a JH who's game fits so well in this T-mac/Yao oriented team, for a Tony Battie. But, I agree, so far the team has not addressed our backup/starting PG and backup C needs. But, I also seriously doubt management will panic and trade JH for something less in return. If anything, they've shown wisdom in waiting it out, most of these offseason contracts have been ridiculous, excluding Brent Barry. If they can't manage to obtain a PG such as Mike James or Damon Jones, they'll just go into the season with the roster we have and pick up some unknown "scrubs" ala "Toraye Braggs". And just wait to get a better option next offseason. Afterall, we're not in it to win it now as the 'astros' analogy points out. If we don't get a backup/starting PG nor a backup C, it won't be the end of the world. And we won't be doomed to experience a disappointing season. I really don't see where all the gloom and doom comes from, or all this urgency. Many people don't realize how much we've improved from last year. The areas we lacked on last season have been improved, our shortcommings that kept us in mediocrity have been removed, inconsistency at certain positions have been replaced by consistency and intelligence. We suffered offensively, were good defensively, and now we're full of shooters and offensive threats from top to bottom. Some say that cost us our defensive prowess. Well, you took away Cat's good defense and replaced it with T-mac's great to probable excellent defense. You took away Cato and replaced him with Juwan, you lose blocks, but you gain rebounds and far superior offense. We've improved greatly offensively and decline marginally defensively, so where's the urgency?
Here is the thing, Jeff McInnis is probably the most realistic target next year. Most others are restricted (Parker/Jaric), will be high profile, overpriced, players like Fish was this year (BJack/DStoud) or have even more weaknesses than D Jones or M James (e.g., E Watson). So if McInnis is your man (or A. Daniels), go get him this year and set some paramenters for the next contract. Neither guy is a spring chicken, so get an extra year of production in a year where it might very well make the difference (see below), and get the advantage in resigning them by showing your interest and having them a part of the team now. Right now probably both McInnis and AD can be had, obviously MJ and DJ can be as well. Without a TE next year, and IMO overall a worse group of FA PGs than the group this year, now is the time to strike. At a minimum I think the conditions are most favorable now to address the PG spot (add a bigger alternative to Lue who can also keep opponents honest from the 3 line), and probably address the back-up C spot though like you I can live with JH/MoT doing that. Yes we have improved. But I don't see these suggested moves as due to feelings of urgency, or even desperation, but as oppertunism. Say you split the MLEwith .6 to D. Jones (or M James) and .4 to K. Clark over 3 year deals or so. That team there could easily compete for the title this year assuming chemistry is OK. That is not so far fetched with some modest oppertunnistic moves--just look at Minnesotta, Detriot and SA, they all went through vigorous shake ups last offseason or during the season (Sheed, M James) and all had great shots at the title. Want to make the team even stronger? Do the above moves with the MLE add an extra swingman (Eric Williams, Peeler, Person, Hoiberg, Jon Barry) to provide depth and protection for if Boki or Pike fail (using their base veteran minimums or use the 1.6 exemption, 2 years, 3.3 mil). These moves don't mortage the future, but put the Rockets in position to win it all in 05 as well as 06 & 07, and don't hurt your positioning thereafter. With Tmac in his prime and Yao getting close to it, every modestly prudent oppertunnity to make the best roster possible should be considered. It is more than likely next year's quality FAs PGs are even more expensive to attain, and we definetely will have less flexibility to manover and negotiate as our TE will have expired.
Dude, if you are on the WORSE TEAM in the NBA (ORLANDO last year), you'd get plenty of rebounds cause your team throws up bricks. Put Early Boykins on that team and he would get 50 rebounds per game.
i call bullsh*t on that. If you are the worst team in the NBA, the opposing team would score on you almost every trip down court because you play no D, which by the way if you look up the stats will prove it, so there are less boards to collect. It's not like Juwan Howard is an offensive board monster and pulls down every brick from his teammates. tinman you're full of sh*t and you jsut showed again you are just hating.
oh and i've gone out of my way to find the stats. http://www.nba.com/statistics/sortable_team_statistics/sortable1.html#top Orlando had the worst opponent fieldgoal percentage in the league at 47% That's almost half the shots the opponent is making. Orlando is 27th, or 3rd last in opponent's RPG and 23rd in RPG.
