That one is easy. Because he gives up more on defense than he scores. Same with Scola. Both of these guys are two of the worst defenders I have seen in quite some time. Landry can at least claim he is still learning, but Scola has no excuse after 9 seasons or however long he was in Europe.
YES! Let's put the guy in that just happens to be the one who got benched for the current starter right when we had our turnaround last year.
I really question whether or not you watch the games or just write on the board to read your own stuff. If Scola and Landry are the two worst defenders you've seen in a long time, then you don't watch that much basketball. I'd maybe give you some props if you had any solid proof that Scola and Landry give up more points than they score every game. If you don't then you shouldn't even write anything. And by the way if you're arguing for Chuck to start or get more playing time, then your choice of evidence is poorly chosen. Pretty much if Chuck lets his man score 1 or 2 times, then he has already given up more points than he is going to score.
haven't we already tried this before? i'd rather start ron at the 4. no way we start hayes, with scola and landry on our team; especially with adelman as the coach.
To the OP: Solid argument, good thread, I like when people come on here and actually talk basketball. I don't think inserting him as a starter is neccesarily the smartest thing to do however. The problem with our starters is, well, they haven't played much together this season. Guess what, last season this starting lineup (the first time they played together) won 95% of their games together (then Yao goes down). Our problem isn't our starters, we have been starting off games pretty well. Our problem is the 4th quarter and playing down the stretch. I think our starting lineup with Chuck Hayes will be good down the stretch, starting out the fourth quarter. We have a defensivelineup with like Battier at the 2, Artest at the 3, and Chuck at the 4, the other team will get very frustrated about not scoring and mentally shut it down.
interesting take. rafer-battier-artest-hayes-yao is about the best defensive unit we can put up. if this happens at the start of a 4th quarter, especially when we have a lead, it's gonna be interesting to watch.
You miss the point here. If Chuck gets 5 or 6 stops, that is as good as scoring 10-12 points. If Luis Scola scores 10-12 points and the guy he is guarding scores 15-20, you are giving up a lot. And we aren't even talking about blown defensive assignments, poor rotation, and gambling that leads to their teammates having to bail him out and pick up cheap fouls. I could say I overexaggerated a bit about them being the worst I have seen in quite awhile, but I would probably be lying. I honestly can't remember players in the pro's being this bad at defense and still playing the kind of minutes they do. Maybe some Point Guards I have seen, but I don't recall ever seeing some of the stuff I have seen Luis Scola do on defense. I've never seen a pro basketball player absolutely run away from his defender like Scola has done many times, most recently against Deron Williams. Especially when the guy already played pro in Europe for 6 or 7 years. Honestly, I don't see how any coach in the world could watch this and then not play this guy. Rick Adelman is a terrible coach, plain and simple: <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/IuvicmG_zgk&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/IuvicmG_zgk&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
Teams will be sagging off Hayes and that creates poor floor balance. You'll be going 4 on 5 with him on the floor.
Hayes is best coming off the bench but nice supporting statements in your analysis. Don't know if the current lineup will be changed but the D has to improve.
No it's really not. Don't you think if your point was as obvious as you make it somebody (well, besides you) would 'get it'? Calling Adelman a terrible coach and blaming it on him isn't a valid point either. He wins games. Speaking of winning games, I find it terribly convenient how you're ignoring the fact that our team was something like 31-7 last year once Scola replaced Hayes in the starting line up. Do the math. Without Yao, Landry's value became evident too. I respect your opinion and your arguments are well made. I just really think you're letting your bias cloud your judgment and now you're just twisting facts to try to make your point. You ignore spacing. You ignore Chuck's tendency to instantly get into foul trouble. You ignore that statistically not one of our top five 5-man units includes Hayes in them. You ignore how this team took off once Scola replaced Hayes. And you're wrong, when you consider our PF production by position we are not giving up more than we're scoring.
I can't believe anyone that has watched the Rockets the past couple of years would want to go back to this.
I didn't conveniently ignore the fact that the team went on a big winning streak when Scola was inserted into the starting lineup. I talked about it in detail on I believe page 2. Mutombo was a big part of that streak. Scola scores, Mutombo defends. If Scola was that big of a difference maker, then why are The Rockets struggling this year with the exact same team? That same lineup is the same lineup that is blowing games. Also, if you have become stagnant, a change can sometimes spark the team. They subbed defensive stopper Chuck Hayes for Scorer Luis Scola. Now that The Rockets are struggling, putting Chuck back in could give them a spark. You won't know until you try it a few games. Adelman has tried starting everybody else and no spark. I am not ignoring any of this. I addressed the "4 on 5" offense thing in my original post. If you watch the games, the spacing is the same whether Scola or Hayes are out there. Hayes cuts to the rim and noone leaves him wide open, that is just stupid to even insinuate that. If this myth that teams don't guard Chuck was true, then, Chuck would score 12-14 ppg. Also, if Scola is so important to the floor spacing, then why are Yao's numbers down? Infact, he had career ppg WITH Chuck Hayes starting. If Chuck gets into foul trouble, you have Scola and Landry waiting, so I don't really see the point you were trying to make there. And finally, statistically, how can Chuck Hayes be in one of our top 5-Man units when he plays sporatically (like the 6 minutes he got the other night)? Just for the record, the Yao/Hayes/Battier/McGrady/Alston lineup when Van Gundy was here was the highest rated lineup for the Lenovo Plus/Minus that year. And with Chuck Hayes on the floor that year, The Rockets held their opponents to the lowest points scored IN THE NBA. Put that in your pipe and smoke it...
The reason yaos numbers are down is because: a. he is getting doubled team more often b. he has improved his passing out of the double team skill c. he is opening up opportunities for others with his improved skill d. scola can flash to the high post when his man is cheating off scola...scola can knock down the shot whereas hayes cannot
Lets see Rockets are one of the futile offensive teams in this league as opposed to the being in the middle for defensive categories. This teams needs a more fluid offense first, If the Rockets could actually score easier there would be 4-5 losses less.
LOL - I have to think this thread is a joke, I mean you can not seriously suggest starting a player whose FT% is .375% Surpassed only by his WORSE FG % of .319% Chuck Hayes is a great situational player as a defender against teams with post players. He gets torched against quicker players who can shoot from range and dribble, he is only good against post players on D. He is what he is....a great post defender, and nothing more. Any team having to start a Chuck Hayes is doomed to fall short. DD
I admire your intelligent points, but I disagree. a. Why is he getting double teamed more often if Luis is such a good threat? b. If he has improved his passing out of the double team, why are his assists per game less than the previous 2 seasons? He averaged 2.0 and 2.3 WITH Chuck Hayes starting in 06-07 and 07-08. c. Proof? d. True, but where is the proof that this is helping Yao? Once again, if it were helping Yao, then his Assists would be up, not down.
Absolutely ZERO proof of this. Evidence being how well he has performed against Dirk Nowitzki and Okur. The rest of your post is not even worth commenting on and you sounded foolish even typing it.
