Ok, from the first post to respond, I thought you guys thought it was too much in Toronto's favour. But apparently, you guys think Toronto is giving up too much (it's usually the other way around). I'm speaking in the perspective of a Toronto fan. Many Toronto fans absolutely hate our situation at center, so Cato would be a nice boost. A growing resentment of AD (myself included) is happening, especially when his wife speculated on demanding a trade. Mo Pete is expendable since we have many 3s. KT is good for us because we need another 4. In exchange you guys get a decent 4 (AD), a decent 3 (Mo Pete), and Hakeem's contract as filler (which you don't have to pay, insurance picks up 80% of the tab). If you guys think Toronto is getting ripped off, instead of KT, give Toronto Nachbar
To solve this problem I stated in my post we might want to look at this. Hou trades: Kenny Thomas Glen Rice Terrenc Morris Tito Maddox (or Moochie, which ever) future 2nd round draft pick Cle trades: Tyronne Hill Ricky Davis Houston reason: Losing a few 3's and 4's get us a chance to focus more on the players we have. We solidify each position 2deep, not a ridiculous 3. As much as depth is a positive thing, too much does lead to battle over minutes. Especially when you have 3 power forwards that want to start. We lose a three point threat but also his contract. The main prize is getting Davis out of this as our new solid 3. Cleveland reason: Loses an old 4/5. Hill to them is like Rice to us. We have more 3/4 and they have more 5. So the trade takes care of the glut. They lose a great player, but with Wagner playing solid ball and Miles at the 3, they potentially face NYK's old problem with Rice Spreewell and Houston. Giving them Rice might not make since but hear me out. Rice is older and less effective and he knows it. His time is already limited even on Hou with no solid 3. He can start or be benched and either way won't take as much time as Davis would demand. More time for Wagner and Miles and latter on James. Glen can also play 4 which is a cleveland weakness. They also get a solid 4 with Kenny. Kenny just proved his value again against NO. A solid back up 3/4 with Morris who knows he is a back up. They get a decent pg, whichever is given. They have nothing decent a pg right now after they traded Andre. They get a future 2nd as an inncentive. Plus they lose Davis who has gotten into many arguements with teammates an the head coach Lucas, which has led to suspensions and what not. The chemistry is shakey, and they need more mins at 2 with emergence of Wagner and Miles back and playing well at 3. They need a 4 and a 1. We give them this. Potentail line ups Ming/Cato Griffin/Taylor Davis/Nachbar Mobley/Hawkins Francis/Moochie (Maddox) Illgauskas/Mihm Thomas/Stewart Miles/Jones Wagner/Coles Maddox(Moochie)/Palacio comment on what you think. Good/Bad trade? Should either team consider it?
This trade will never fly. Toronto is getting ripped off big time so Glen Grunwald will never do it (he looks like a guy with a good head on his shoulders). To start, Cato probably will NEVER become AD, who's putting all-star numbers playing 5 instead of 4, which is his actual position. If Toronto would actually make the trade I'd say hell yeah. Solves all our 4 probs. No more rotating between EG, Kenny ad Mo. Secondly Kenny is a stinker right now while MoPete is actually putting up decent numbers (I won't even start arguing which one of them make better decisions with the ball, should be pretty obvious). Finally, Glen Rice should retire while Hakeem already retired, I don't know why anybody on either side of the trade would trade a retiring player for somebody already retired. It would help Houston though, dumping Rice's huge salary in TO. But if this trade came up I'd do it in a heartbeat just to milk the last years out of AD. However, if instead taking AD out and putting JYD in this trade I'd still do it. I like his energy and he can bring us boards and defense.
Ok, so you guys all would love the deal if it happened. For a minute I thought it was the other way around. fyi, many Toronto fans would love to get rid of AD: http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?topic=101322&forum=32&14 So would you guys still do it if you threw in Nachbar instead of KT? How would you change it to make it even?
Don't make dumb proposal's OK? Even if you take Kenny out and put Boki in Toronto would still be getting ripped off. Kenny can be good when he's not making boneheaded plays and MoPete (at least for the next while) is > Boki.
Hey if it's coming from a Toronto fan, then you guys should have no problem with the trade. I think you guys should be honoured that a Toronto fan puts so much value in your scrubs. I know I'm feeling good that you put so much value in our scrubs. (more value than they're worth imho). Many fans in Toronto think that AD is untradeable, and Cato would be a dominant center in the East. So if Toronto feels Houston is getting ripped off and Houston feels Toronto is getting ripped off, then we have a fair deal
A) Fortunately or not, fans don't represent the talent evaluation base of the teams they support...Hence, if we were to decide that we don't like Steve, and suggest a trade to Toronto for Michael Bradley, the fact that we are suggesting it doesn't mean it's realistic, or that the Rockets' mamnagement would follow suit. B) Because you have an obvious dislike of AD, and want to get rid of him doesn't mean you are devoid of bias...As people on this board will attest, being a fan of a particular team doesn't prevent you from being completely negative and biased against a certain player on that team, or proposing trades whose primary intent is to get rid of said personally disliked player, irrespective of basis in realistic value.
I would love to have Antonio Davis. He would bring solid veteran leadership that this team desperately lacks. Also, we have quantity PF's but not quality. Davis is a hardworking rebounder that can make the open shot. Morris Peterson can also be an upgrade at SF. There is no way in hell Toronto would make this trade. They may look to trade these players but not for the garbage you've offered.
Okay Gamer, I'll play. Here's my counter offer. Houston sends: Moochie: A fan favorite that (when he's not over dribbling) can be a very effective PG. Cato: His numbers are up this year, while having to share the center duties with Ming. His attitude improved last year & he's continued with it this year. He'll dominate in the East. Rice: While not as good as he used to be, he can still light it up & he brings a veteran savvy to the team. His contract expires after next year, which will drop $9 mill off of Toronto's salary cap. We'd be doing Toronto a huge favor by sending them Rice. Taylor: Coming off a year long injury, he's struggled a bit this year, but we know that he's capable of scoring at will (once he shakes off the rust). KT: He's the perfect 3/4 tweener. He's too quick for 4's to guard & too strong for 3's to guard. He plays with heart/desire & is driven to get better. His salary is cheap as well. Toronto sends: AD: Still very effective, but is 34 years old & has 4 years left on his huge contract. Can't be too many years left in those legs. Dream: Has already retired & will never play again. Even though we don't have to pay 80% of his salary, his entire salary counts against the cap. Thus, limiting our FA moves. We'd be doing Toronto another huge favor by taking on his salary. Murray: He's currently injured, but will make a nice addition to our team. Bradley: Still raw, but promising. Provides us with depth & a replacement for KT/Taylor. MoPete: His shooting percentages are way down this year. However, I'd be willing to chance that it's just a hiccup in his career. Future #1 pick: You can have up to 4 years to pay it, with each subsequent year being less restricted & you choose when to give it up. In other words: Year 1: Lottery protected Year 2: Top 7 protected Year 3: Top 3 protected Year 4: No protection So, what do you say? Do we make the deal?
I'd say that that's ripping Toronto even more. If you think my trade was ripping Toronto off, I wonder why you would suggest that this trade would be making it fair. Instead of Murray, Bradley and #1 pick, we'll give you Hunter and Huffman, both contracts come off after 1 1/2 years.
Get it through your heads guys, Hakeem is not officially retired: http://espn.go.com/nba/columns/stein_marc/1459091.html
I'm not the only one who thinks AD is overrated. Half the fans in Toronto think he's overrated, and would be willing to trade his huge salary for a true center with potential, like Cato. AD, unfortunately, has reached his peak and is headed downwards. Mo Pete was good, but we've got Lamond Murray who is better and Voshon Lenard and Jefferies as backup. You may think Toronto is getting ripped off, but there does exist an opportunitiy for both clubs to benefit. We add to our frontcourt, you add veteran and playoff experience to your club, especially since your team hasn't been to the playoffs in a while, AD will help you there. We skim off $3 million off our books for 3 years. Throw in a lottery protected first rounder and you guys might think it's fair.
If Antonio Davis could shoot, he'd be the ideal player for this team. A power forward with respectable offense who plays great defense, passes and can backup at the 5??? Where do I sign up? Alas, Davis wouldn't be any better than KT or MoT(current version) shooting the same wide open J's. Hmmm...let's see. Who fits that mold? Ahh...Brian Grant. Alright who can work out a plausible deal for Grant? You've got to ship out Mo or Kenny.
Are you insane, there's no way the salaries match up, we're paying the three players we're sending absurd amounts of money, while Toronto's aren't being paid NEARLY that much...the league would never approve it, even IF the teams did.
Game4life, I'm starting to wonder if you really are a true Raptors' fan. Let's even assume AD is overrated, he is still averaging 14 ppg, 8.3 rpg and 1.4 blocks. I don't know about the future cuz AD is approaching retirement age. But right now he sure as hell is better than Cato. Tell you what, if you can get Grunwald to offer the trade, we'll do it in a heartbeat.
I would do that trade in two seconds. Antonio Davis is one of the best bangers in the league. But, I'd rather add Mo Taylor into the deal and get rid of his lazy, no-rebounding a$$. So, I say Kenny Thomas Mo T Glen Rice for Morris Peterson Antonio Davis Now, I THAT's a good trade, IMO.
Wow axeman, keep dreaming, ha ha ha. First of all, with Lenard, Hunter and Murray hurt and my man Vince hobbling on one leg, Toronto's backcourt is overworked as it is. They will never trade away MoPete. Also, with Vince's knee quickly ruining his career (?) Raptors can use all the offense they can get. MoPete provide some of that offense and AD provides some of that offense and leadership. Not to dig at Cato and all but he will never provide any team with offense and KT sure as hell won't if he keeps going ISO. Toronto would actually be losing more offense than they gain which simply doesn't make sense for them. A more realistic trade I said earlier would be JYD and MoPete for Cato, KT and throw in Boki to fill Toronto's hole in the backcourt. But if AD is offered to us in the trade I'd definitely do it. Hell, even if JYD is offered I'd still do it. He can show Eddie what playing hardnosed ball is (especially considering he's pretty young too). He would solve our problem at the 4 while not take shots away from Yao, Steve and Cat like Kenny does (since he's not known for O) while getting some boards. We'd also be getting a decent guard.
