Rafer's role was to be the setup guy and not turn the ball over. Problem was that he couldnt shoot the way Brooks could nor attack and finish the way Lowry can so he was truly an offensively liability in any sort of way which is why teams let Rafer do whatever he wanted. If Brooks was able to set up and take care of the ball the way Rafer did and play defense the way Rafer did (Rafer was in no means a great defender but he did put in a lot of effort and was at least an average or very slightly above average defender at best) he would be a top PG in the league with his ability to score and only then would the Tony Parker comparisons be somewhat valid IMO
What about keeping Brooks with the handles he has and his overall play is hard to find, plus he is only getting better each year. Memphis has been our b**** before why not again? Imagine Marc Gasol going up against his brother in the playoffs instead of watching Yao get picked apart, plus Thabeet hasn't impressed anyone perhaps we can give him to Hakeem as a project. We know he can shot block and rebound (poor mans Mutumbo). What about a package of: Pick Hill Budinger Jeffries for Gasol Thabeet
I'm wasn't saying that AB's defense is good, and the rest are bad. I was saying that its unfair to single AB out when our team defense as a unit was atrocious. In one season, the Rockets went from 4th in defensive rating to 17th. Did Rafer really make that big of an impact on defense? Made a difference...for sure. Made a significant difference? I highly doubt it. 2 things changed between a year...Hayes replaced Yao, and Ariza replaced Artest. I'm not saying that Ariza, Battier or Hayes are bad defenders by any means.. they're definitely our best defenders (which is why i would hate to see any of them traded). When you add Martin, our defense is gonna struggle, not denying that. But again, when you add a TRUE BIG MAN in the paint, it prevents the easy baskets. If you have a choice to let someone shoot from the perimeter vs. shoot inside the paint..you allow them to shoot from the perimeter. Rockets last year ranked 25th in Points allowed in the paint. Rockets in 08-09 ranked 4th in Points allowed in the paint. Rockets on 07-08 ranked 5th in Points allowed in the paint...this one...with an old, beat up McGrady who many also say that he is not good defensive player. But, we had true BIG MEN... YAO (until he got hurt) and then DEKE. Hoopsstats.com What i'm saying is this.. without a true big man, your defense is vulnerable. If you had Lowry start a full 82 games, my assumption is that YES our defense would be better, but would it make a SIGNIFICANT difference? IMO...no, it wouldnt make a significant difference. Assists to TO ratios are also a good number to look at, but again, doesn't tell the whole story. If AB attempts 4 passes to Chuck Chuck scores 1 time Chuck misses 2 times AB turns it over 1 time ....in this scenario what could be a 3:1 ratio, just turned into a 1:1 ratio BUT, if you put YAO in place of Chuck, pass Yao the ball 4 times Yao scores 2 times Yao misses 1 time AB turns it over 1 time ...you go from a 1:1 ratio (from Chuck's scenario) to a 2:1 ratio.. which you described would be considered a pg with "good court vision" (of course you would need to add in the rest of the players to get a better idea of what Brooks can be...but that would just take a long time to do!) What I'm saying here, is pretty much, that it is still TOO SOON to judge AB based on 1 1/2 seasons as a full time starter. He's gonna be playing Kevin Martin, Ariza (playing his natural spot), Scola (hopefully), and Yao starting with him. I can see his TO's coming down, and his assists going up. This lineup is FAR MORE improved when you compare it to Ariza, Battier, Scola and Hayes.
Give him time to get there he has started a total of what? 100 games? And Tony Parker is hardly a defensive wizard. IIRC whenever Brooks played with better players in the starting lineup his assist numbers jumped up. If he struggles this year with a healthy Yao, then he might be moved, if however he plays the same or gets more efficient, then I think we may have our PG for the next 8 years. DD
i am saying that a shot blocker is crucial like you are saying Yao's absence was the biggest reason for the decline but Yao is prone to fouls especially on guard penetration with both AB and Martin in the backcourt the guards for the other teams are gonna be whizzing by like crazy What i'm saying is this.. without a true big man, your defense is vulnerable. If you had Lowry start a full 82 games, my assumption is that YES our defense would be better, but would it make a SIGNIFICANT difference? IMO...no, it wouldnt make a significant difference. and i pointed out that every starting pg in the west with the exception of flynn --who is very similar in the way he plays the game to brooks-- has a better ratio than Brooks... sure chuck isnt as good finishing around the rim as Yao but he isnt as bad as people make him to be but at the same time if others could rack up higher ratios with lesser squad that also tells you something. also do not ignore the Turnover part of the ratio brooks gets the assists but he also has a higher turnover rate thats where the issue comes for me personally he is too small to be able to make certain passes, not strong enough to make passes in the lane consistently and hence 'lack of court vision' the guy since college has always been a scoring guard always and never a true "point" at his age you aren't going to become a crazy good passer you may rack up assists as a product of the system NOT because he has the vision. Brooks has his strengths his scoring given what our projected lineup should be - yao,scola,ariza,martin i would rather have my pg be a more traditional set up guy than a scorer...preferably a set up guy who can score (mike bibby, young derek fisher) is the ideal but we dont have that we have brooks and lowry both very good guards with different skills. i just feel what you would lose with lowry not being able to shoot as well as brooks you can much more back with his passing, rebounding, drawing fouls and defense and thus overall have a better starting 5 on the floor.
Awesome bit of IRRELEVENCE !!! Did all those point guards play in the same offensive system as Brooks where they were the primary scoring option? Did all of those PG's play in Rick Adelman's read and react where the first pass often leads to the "hockey" assist that Morey and staff track? And I am sure starting with offensive juggernauts like: Chuck Hayes Trevor Ariza & Shane Battier Did a ton to help AB's assist numbers... Wait, nope, not sure...in fact, I am sure it is the opposite. Let's see how AB does with Martin, didn't his assist numbers start to go up as soon as the team acquired Martin? Hmmmm I wonder why that is??? DD
Brooks has done one thing consistently without turnovers in his whole life: Prove doubters wrong. Let's revisit this thread a year later.
I see what you're saying.. I just personally think that with our Project lineup of Yao, Scola, Ariza, and Martin...Brooks may be a better fit. Defensively, yes you will struggle and it wont be a top 10 rated defense. BUT...if the Rockets choose to post Yao up down low, he's going to need reliable shooters around him. We saw what happened when we had Rafer manning the PG position.. Lowry..with the make up of our bench players, is better suited to come off the bench and make an impact. Lowry is a high energy, speed up the and the tempo of the game. When you have Budinger and Hill coming off the bench with him, they're guys that will run the court with him. If Lowry starts, Yao could end up using much of his energy to catch up with the rest of the offense. This may have adverse affects on Yao's offense and defense.
Turnovers per game - other notable PGs: Link Steve Nash 3.6 Deron Williams 3.3 Russel Westbrook 3.3 Tyreke Evans 3.0 Rajon Rondo 3.0 Johnny Flynn 2.9 Aaron Brooks 2.8 Some of them are a lot better assist guys than Brooks, but Brooks shoots more than those guys and gets less assist opportunities. I would like to see Brooks improve his assist to turnover ratio, but I believe it will jump up once he gets to play with better finishers more often. I mean, anyone that doesn't think Lowry's stats aren't inflated because he played with better offensive players against other teams 2nd unit is basically lying to themselves. And 2.8 turnovers per game for a guy that has his hands on the ball as much as Brooks and initiates almost every offensive possession is really really good. DD
Actually, landry would probably got back to the bench and thompson would start. Off the bench would be donte,beno,garcia,landry, and maybe whiteside. Thats a pretty explosive group of young players.
If there is a trade in the making, I hope it's done soon so the squad wont have to rebuild chemistry during the season. Some people are hoping they wait until trade deadline....depending on who's traded, is that a good idea? If there's a starter involved, or starters, is that enough time to regain chemistry come playoff time?
I guess we will see, but its no accident his effeciency went up with martin. Playing with hayes,ariza,and shane and being the best offensive player is crazy.
I see a few posts in this thread that are also labeling Brooks' as a player with bad court vision that can't be improved, so I'll put up my post from another thread that shows Aaron can still improve. I was comparing some stats on basketball reference when I remembered how many people on here thought that Brooks had bad court vision and it couldn't be improved. That got me thinking about Steve Nash, and how great of a passer he is. Well, after comparing Brooks' and Nash's stats for their first few seasons, it proves that Brooks CAN improve on the vision and passing ability. Last year was Brooks' third season in the league, and he averaged 5.3 assists per game, which isn't that bad. In Nash's third year in the league, the season where he also became the Suns starting PG, he only averaged .2 assists more than AB per game. Granted he did only start 40 games because of injury I suppose, it still shows that Brooks' can get better with his vision and passing. In fact, Steve didn't average over 6 assists per game until his fifth season in the league, when he averaged 7.3 per game compared to 2.9 turnovers per game, which happens to be .1 more than AB had last year in his third season. Basically my point is that you can't give up on AB's passing and vision yet. Seeing as Nash is now averaging over 10 assists per game in the past few seasons, he wasn't able to eclipse the 6 apg mark until his fifth year in the league, like I said before. Aaron is only going to be in his fourth year in the league next season, so let's wait a couple of years until we deem that Brooks' won't be able to improve those qualities. Brooks' 3rd season compared to Nash's 5th: http://www.basketball-reference.com...ashst01&y2=2001 Brooks' and Nash's 3rd season comparison: http://www.basketball-reference.com...ashst01&y2=1999
Idk why you said "only 4 other PGs had those numbers last year. Brooks did not have those numbers. Sure he is a great scorer, but 5 apg and abysmal defense practically cancels it out
that's a bit of a cherry pick (that guys like DaDakota have used before)because Nash was aberrationally bad during his 3rd season and seemingly regressed from years 1 and 2. But as far as his ability to develop such skills, why don't we consult a true basketball genius: http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?p=777669&highlight=playmaking#post777669
In Adelman's system the PGs job is not to create for other players and rack up assists. Stop using AB's assist numbers as some sort of relevant metric, because it isnt.
