Houston ordered to offer Vietnamese voting material

Jeff, Doc of Dunk, Freeflowin' etc. Great posts guys.

I've never understood why anyone who speaks English is mad when immigrants don't or when things get printed in more than one language.

It doesn't hurt any English speaking American at all. It doesn't take jobs away, in fact they would have less competition for jobs.

The only people missing out are the immigrants who don't speak English. So why does it make some people so angry?

 

This is cool. Now there can be Vietnamese in congress from whatever district alief is in. I wonder who represents that area anyways? Well, I think it's a good initiative. I got like 80plus extended family there, and the ones who can and can't read English don't differ much in terms of amount of political knowledge.

 

I like how my post gets miscontrued.

Let me highlight a word ... PROMOTES

I've worked with both sides. The ones I respect are the ones the learn the language, regardless of the race. I've also worked with some where I had to learn a few words to communicate with them and actually do the freakin job(ok, so it was fastfood).

We are the land of opportunity, but we can't open our doors and accept everyone in. Much like charity, you can't help everyone.

Pick and choose. Life isn't fair.

 

Really Jeff, is that what we're talking about here? No, it's not. Most people here haven't learned a second language, but they're not immigrating into a new country. This is the great American melting pot, which means that we'll welcome you, but you need to melt just a LITTLE bit. With all of the rights and benefits that this country has to offer there are responsibilities that accrue. One of those is to learn the language IMHO. If you make no effort to do so , then you are not interested in being part of this society at large.

In a somewhat unrelated matter, I went to the movies a few months ago, and was subjected to being distracted for the entire movie because somebody was translating the movies to their relatives. Ridiculous.

 

Jeff, Doctor Robert, FranchiseBlade: Thanks.


Space Ghost, let me reiterate what I said earlier:
<b>3) To say that having a billingual voting brochure <i>promotes</i> laziness is an affront... </b>


I'm sorry if I misconstrued your post, but it seems that

You said:
<b>Encourage them to get off their asses.</b>

This seems to imply that the Vietnamese population is sitting on their collective ass. I don't know about the people you've come in contact with, but every, and I mean every, Vietnamese immigrant I know are very grateful to enjoy the liberties that we as Americans enjoy, and they work hard to make a living, in spite of the language barrier, stereotypes, and the stigma of the Vietnam war. I don't know if you mean Vietnamese/immigrants in general by using the word "them", but I personally took the tone to be divisive. Sorry if I'm mistaken.

I posed a couple of rhetorical questions which I don't think you've answered completely:
<b>Do you think it is easy to learn a new language when you are an adult? To understand new concepts that are foreign to you while at the same time trying to provide for your family with little to no marketable skills?</b>

You said:
<b>This is the land of opportunity, not the land of <i>free handouts.</i></b>

To which I said:
<b>First generation immigrants often have struggle to make ends meet, to survive, through menial labor and low paying jobs.</b>

I still don't get how translating a political document that allows a segment of the population to voice their opinions and take part in the voting process (something that would be denied to them in their prior homelands) is transposed into "free handouts". I don't think any immigrants are getting free handouts. We all want to better ourselves and our lives in some way. And I think a lot of immigrants buy into the idea of "work hard" more so than American immigrants who've been here longer, perhaps because they still remember the worse conditions from which they came. Honestly, I think most "Americans" don't realize, or we tend to forget, the liberties that we have.

You said:
<b> Pick and choose, life isn't fair</b>

I don't get how this relates to the current question of billingual ballots. And I still don't see how this promotes "laziness". And how do we give this "encouragement to get them off their asses"?

Sorry if I singled you out, but I had some issues with your brief messages.

 

So much for the poor, tired huddled masses yearning to breathe free, eh?

I wonder how many of us would actually sacrifice what immigrants do just to make it to another country and attempt to prosper for their family's benefit. Honestly, would you swim a river, risk being shot, ride in the back of a locked truck for hours in the middle of summer just so you could work a job that pays you next to nothing knowing that you will be ridiculed and very likely deported anyway? How about spend weeks in the belly of a ship with little water and no bathroom subsisting on raw fish? Sound fun?

Compare this to your movie inconvenience, Ref. Doesn't quite make the cut, does it?

What amazes me is that immigrants are the easiest target in the world. They are mostly poor with little or no resources. They are alienated and ridiculed by just about everyone. They can't speak the language and work jobs none of us would take...EVER. Is this the best target we can possibly think of? Does an immigrant not speaking English really effect us all so much that we have to paint a bullseye on some Mexicans or Vietnamese who mostly work harder every day than the vast majority of us posting on this board will work this year?

Seems pretty ridiculous to argue over something that very likely will NEVER affect adversely.

And nevermind the very facts freeflowin' pointed out. This is as much about the practical reality of learning a language as it is the symbolic gesture. If you have to work 3 jobs just to pay the bills to avoid being homeless, my guess is you have little time for language lessons.

 

So because somebody sacrificed to get here means they don't have to exhibit common courtesy? Isn't that pandering just a little?

False. Just simply false. People come over here (legal or otherwise) and are immediately eligible for all kinds of governement programs. My mother works at a public elementary school and sees it all the time. she is in the trenches trying to educate these kids and has become very aware of the realities once a family takes up residence here.

This is the type of emotional argument that drives me crazy. It is simply not factual. You usually have a lot of fact to back up your posts Jeff, and I respect you immensely for that. Unfortunately, you're not accurate on this one.

 

You can highlight it all you want... it's still an ignorant statement. Simply because people don't learn a language doesn't mean they are "lazy" or somehow being forced into being "lazy".

Why don't you have respect for ones that don't learn the language? Your stance is bizarre. To somehow not respect people simply because they don't learn a language? How strange.

Good thing that decision isn't yours to make. It's interesting you've gone from the Vietnamese ballots and voting material to not opening our doors and accepting everyone. Big step there. Equal opportunity does not equate to charity. Equal opportunity is a right given by this country (much to my happiness) - what you do with that opportunity is an individual decision. I also don't believe all the refugees and immigrants from places such as Vietnam came here looking for handouts - when's the last time you saw a dude on a street corner holding a sign that said "will work for food" in Vietnamese? I don't think I have...

I agree. Look in the mirror and repeat it to yourself.

 

You do not need to echo this thought to my family. When we first came to America, my father worked at a fish market from 9am-6pm, came home ate, slept from 7pm-1am, woke up to go cleaned office buildings from 2am-6am, he did this for one and a half years. Let me give you a cookie and a pat on the back for learning some key words and phrases in a different language so you can do your “freakin job.” Try learning a new way of life, new cultures, and a new government system on top of the new language to do your “freakin job” and support your freakin family.

I think the Vietnamese population is aware of issues occurring in Houston through Vietnamese newspaper, magazines, and radio, but would not feel comfortable voting or signing a document written in a language that they may not fully understand. Would you sign or vote a document that outlined instructions in a language that you probably understand on a 5th grade reading level?

#Sarcasm Begin
I was also at a movie, and this 2-3 year old kid kept on talking out loud throughout the whole movie. I was very annoyed at the mother for not controlling her child. We should ban all childbirths this moment on. Ridiculous.
#Sarcasm End

This is not about one’s ability to speak English, that instance was about people being rude. You have rude people of all color, shape, size, origin, blah blah blah.

 

You're right. Sadly, there are some who obviously feel that if they don't have to learn the language then they don't have to follow the norms and mores of our society for what is rude and what is not. This isn't just about language. This is about the larger issue of trying to become a member of society. In many instances it is difficult if not impossible to fully become a member od society if you don't speak the same language as the rest of society.

All of that being said...there are many immigrants who come over here and bust their butts every day to earn a living. The Vietnamese did that extremely well and many have done quite well. As for learning new cultures, I do enjoy a large bowl of soup at Pho Cong Ly every once in a while.

 

You really are something else, you know that?

 

Did you know that the average Chinese-American adult in the USA earns more than the average Anglo-American? I think they also have higher average IQ's, whatever that's worth. Enjoy your "pho."

 

Are you implying that non-English speaking immigrants are ruder than those that can speak English? Or have you still not gotten over that day your movie going experience was ruined? Well hey, I can go out on the street and grab out tons of assholes that can speak perfect 8th grade level English...

Geez, you sound like you're the only person that has had a movie spoiled because of a person around you. Yeah, some lady who was freakishly tall sat in front of me so now I have an issue with all Amazon women! And another time there was a guy who had Ebola or something and coughed every five minutes without covering his mouth. Now I want a quarrantine! And the damn "I can't pay 5 bucks an hour for a babysitter" couple who turn up in R rated movies when they shouldn't bring their freaking children there! Can anyone say birth control??

I'm not overreacting! I just have so much pent up irrational rage that I have to stereotype a group to make make the 8 dollars worth the trouble!

 

I had some white people refuse to turn their phones off in the theatre this past weekend.

They should be forced to learn Vietnamese.

 

Instead of a long, drawn out thesis on why this is a bad idea, I offer two questions:

1) Why should my tax dollars help to pay for Vietnamese people who are unable to learn the widely accepted (not official, but widely accepted) language of English, when other immigrant groups cope with this problem already?

2) Why do Vietnamese not feel insulted that the government doesn't think they can adapt to reading English?

I'm completely supportive of everyone being able to vote, I'm also completely supportive of everyone making an effort to learn English.

 

I don't think printing voting materials in Vietnamese is going to inrease anyones taxes. I can't imagine that's a real concernOne reason that these materials might be a good idea though, is to help them become a more integral part of the way the govt. and American society works. It might actually ecnourage them in the long run to take more active roles, which of course would mean learning English. Either way they are citizens and do deserve a say in what happens in this country.

As far other immigrant groups, it depends on where you are. There are materials available in Spanish, In NY things are printed in Chinese, Spanish, Russian, and more. However the Justice department requires it based out of need. If Houston had huge populations of other immigrant groups that could vote, but didn't speak English, then there would be materials printed for them too. It's all based on need.

I'm not Vietnamese so I don't know for sure. But I don't think this measure means that the U.S believes they won't ever learn to read English. It merely corrects a current issue. There are currently a high number of Viet Namese who don't speak English and are eligible to vote. Thus they seek to correct the problem.

 

Hmm.... your tax dollars go to support so many other things that don't benefit you directly. There's some kid learning astrophysics that you probably don't understand in a college that's funded by your tax dollars. You're pissed aren't you? I know I am. You know what else pisses me off? My car insurance keeps going up even though I haven't gotten a ticket or been the cause of an accident in about 10 years. Hell, I've only gotten 1 ticket. But some Vietnamese person gets the opportunity to vote because we print something up in their language and I'm supposed to be pissed? Don't think so... hell, sign me up, I'll send in $50 to whoever's doing the printing to offset some of the costs.

Make a law that says English is the official language and must be spoken by all US residents or they don't get supported or can't enter the country - I'll be more than happy to back you when the law goes into effect.

Vietnamese don't feel insulted because there's nothing to be insulted by. You perceive they should be insulted, they don't feel that way. Difference of opinions - your perception doesn't mean they have to feel insulted. Not really difficult to understand at all.

My question to you now : Why do you feel insulted/insecure about a group of people not knowing a language being given a better shot at voting?

I still don't get what some of you guys are getting pissed about...

 

1) Because our tax dollars are MEANT to pay for things that do not have tangible private benefits for each and every citizen; that is why we have governments to pay for things like armies and roads and police, that privately each one of us would generally not need on our own. (why should I have to pay for a bridge in Alabama? I never go there) Government (or, us, collectively,) is better able to realize the value of externalities that come from such things as voter participation, national parks, roads, child labor laws, etc. that individual citizens would not. I can make stupid-ass "my tax dollar" arguments about each and every iteme in the federal budget, and they are all worth about the same, which is zero.

This is not to say that everything that the government spends money on is worth it and not wasteful, certainly there are many things that are, which gain notoriety from being such, however vast majority of things are not, so you don't hear about them.

 

What exactly is a "member of society?" How do you define that?

Seems to me a society is an incorporation of people with all different kinds of beliefs, ideals and ideologies. We have laws, but does that isn't what I mean. I have long hair and wear casual clothes all day. Does that make me a societal outcast?

Are deaf people not members of society because they speak sign language?

Geeks don't usually fit in at country clubs. Debutantes usually don't play Dungeons and Dragons. Athletes don't work 9 to 5, neither do musicians. There are guys who farm and monks who live in isolation. Some people would rather drive an SUV or live by the water than ride a bike in the city.

"Society," beyond the application of basic rules we call laws, is however we decide to live. If all you mean is "make enough money to live," and a person can do that without learning English, what's the problem? If you mean participate in the political system, fewer than 30 percent of eligible Americans actually vote.

That whole "fitting into society" thing is wierd. I've NEVER fit into society and I've done just fine.

 

I'm sure you have head various difficulties from some of the stuffier members of society. Difficult sure. But when you don't speak the language of commerce and cannot communicate with the vast majority of the populace...it becomes impossible to fully join the society. Surely you cannot fail to see what I'm talking aboiut, even if I could say it more eloquently.