Houston in advanced talks with Kevin McHale (UPDATE: Done Deal)

I'm going to go against the grain here and say this is a wonderful hire by Morey.

McHale sucks, and is willing to play young players. Hence we will get a great pick next year while developing great players!!!

If Adelman was here we would still get another 14th pick!!!

Why does anyone want a good coach who will guide us to another 46 wins and 9th seed?

Adelman was too good! If Adelman went 0-82, then I'd say Adelman achieved more than what he did with the worst record you could ever get in the Western Conference, 42-42.

This is the first step out of perennial mediocrity!!! Morey is a brilliant hirer of coaches.

 

Don't you mean TWO coaches, considering Adelman was his first coach?

 

I think Morey definitely was the one pushing for Finch. Finch seems to be Morey's guy, he was going to be on the coaching staff whether the coach wanted him or not.

I'm a bit unclear about Finch being designated as Adelman's replacement though. It appears, assuming the MEM assistant gets the job, that Finch won't be the lead assistant on McHale's staff. If you were truly grooming Finch to be a HC, wouldn't you make him the head assistant?

 

What a step backwards, oh well it could of been worse. Thank **** it wasn't Mike Brown.

 

There is still a notion on this forum, that just because we hired McHale, a great guy to develop big men that lacks Xs and Os, we will tank/suck next year and have a great pick.

We will not tank (DM said it), we are shooting for the playoffs next year. Morey is completely against tanking/losing value for the players, just take a look at Minny, a team that has a lot of young talent, but because they have been sucking for so long, If I want to go after players like Beasley or Rubio, it would be "easy" to get them (rubio having a very specific situation).

If you have talented players on consecutive losing team, the notion is that you are good, but don´t elevate the teams level of play. The same could be said about KM in Sac town (even if that is not true).

If KM is still on the roster, there is no way KMac plays Lee more then him. If Scola is still on the roster, there is no way Pat will play more mins.

We will develop young guys while winning, and the amount of wins we get will depend on what will DM do, all out on the draft/sign bigger (not big) FA/trade for d12 or cp3, make trades that simply make our team better short term (Iggy or Granger for example),etc.

I also had this idea that Mchale hiring was about giving Finch the opportunity to get respect among players/league by being an important assistant coach, and in 3 to 4 year be the head coach. Now I have a different opinion about all of this. McHale will be the face of our roster, the leader, and the fact that we are trying to go after great assistant coaches to "hide" McHale shortcomings as a coach, makes me think that this McHale project will be longer then what I expected.

If our goal was to go young, draft hight, develop guys from the ground up, don´t you think that guys like Sam Cassel, Mario Elie, etc, would make more logic??? By going after guys like Dave Joerger, in my mind, our clear goal is to win, and this guy would make our D a lot better, the same could be said about Finch, but of course in this case he already proved that he is a good young player development coach (has Dave Joerger???)

They want to make McHale the face of our big time player recruitment (thinking about D12), HOF, a great leader, surrounded by a very competent coaching staff ready to do the dirty work, just my 2 cents.

PeAcE

 

You honestly think the Rockets would admit they were planning to tank?

 

Hopefully McHale will bring us something from a line-up stand point. I like his attitude and love for the game. This could be the start of something great. After watching a heap of his analysations, he seems to be leaning towards the 'player's coach' category...

 

Not really. Rubio and Beasley don't really have high trade value.. period. It has nothing to do with them being on a losing team. Remember what Minnesota gave up to get Beasley from a playoff team? Not much. Though I do find it funny that you left off Minnesota's best player in your example.

Would it be "easy" for the Rockets to acquire Kevin Love?
Would it be "easy" for the Rockets to acquire Blake Griffin/Eric Gordon?
Would it be "easy" for the Rockets to acquire Javale McGee?

Just because Morey said that losing devalues players doesn't mean it's the 100% truth. Talent is talent, and you're not going to pluck off a great player from a bad team just because they have a bad record.

 

A young player on a bad team perceived to have upside has value despite his team's record. However, at some point, the guy and his team need to start winning or else he loses his shine. Look at, for example, what happened to Zach Randolph during the years between his last season in Portland and his first with Memphis.

Portland traded Zach for the right to pay Steve Francis $30 million NOT to play.

 

Yes, I'm sure there was NOTHING else involved in Portland's decision to trade Randolph other than the team was losing. He was an absolute saint..

 

Chris Bosh has been losing for years, but it didn't scare away suitors in last year's free agent circus. His value actually gone down with a playoff team like Miami. Bosh had the rep of not elevating the team's play, but it wasn't so easy for the Rockets to get him. Rockets bombed out again.

Beasley's value hit low when in Miami, last season. It looked like he was a total draft bust. His value started to rise and opinions changed, when he dropped 20 pts/g in Minnesota. We were beginning to see some of that offensive potential in Beasley that has been missing since draft night.

Carlos Boozer's value was high, even though he was on a losing Cavs team. He was desired by many teams. He ended up jumping ship to Utah.

Kevin Garnett(t-pups), Stephen Curry(warriors), and other losers have had values while being on crappy teams.

It doesn't seem like consecutive losing is the factor, so much as the skill and value of the player.

 

Of course, an individual player's skill can be recognized despite the team not being so good (sometimes it ain't his fault that his teammate suck). Sometimes a young player's physical gifts have value in that people will take a chance on him developing other aspects of the game, but, as I said, there's a time limit. For every JaVale McGee, there's a Andray Blatche or JJ Hickson.

A guy can go from "untouchable" to being shopped quite quickly. For example, remember how the Kings signed this young skinny kid Martin to a $55 million deal? He got traded after the team didn't start winning-- not entirely his fault, they fired a good coach and lost vets. Also, the league-wide perception of guys like Iguodala and Danny Granger have very much been affected by the records of their team over the course of the last several seasons.

 

considering our lack of playoff contention the last two years had more to do with personel than coaching, i disagree with those who think that McHale is going to save the franchise by riding in on a white horse and magically making us contenders. I think this is a bad move, but only time will tell if i'm right. Morey needs to find us a front court player that can play defense (who is not 6'6"), then maybe we will have a chance to escape being a 500 team. I really have woken up from a dream, only to realize that my life is a nightmare. Kevin freaking McHale? We are importing Minny's misery? This is really a hard one for me to swallow.

 

nah bro, but DM already said that they want to keep wining. If the goal was to develop young talent, he would simply not say anything, bring in Cassel and Elie type assistant, and work on developing young guys with KMac. Not go after assistants that compliment the coach, and bring the Xs and Os that helps your team WIN. DM will keep looking for good trades to make the team better, even if it makes them older. We are not going young.....YET. Still 3 big fish out there.

I said, it would be easy to trade for players like Rubio (special case) but specially Beasley, because he already proved that despite being young and talented, he doesn´t help your team win (right now, still young).

And you ask me why I didn´t talk about Griffin, Gordon, Love type players????

Do you think your questions make sense??? Comparing talented players to potential star players???? If I am a mediocre team trading these dudes is not an option, because even if they don´t help you win, they sit peoples in the stands.

We don´t have young star potential players, so in my mind, I give an example of good talented players to say that you don´t lose with good players and lower the value you have on the team.

Javale McGee is a center, meaning that regardless of your offensive game, IQ and fundamentals, if you have an impact on the defensive end, and you are athletic, your value is over the top. All decent centers or overvalued, because they are rare in the NBA .

Another one, ARE WE COMPARING PRIME GARNETT TO PRIME KMart???

I said, if you have players like K mart, Scola, and Lowry, you don´t trade them when you are losing. You will not get the same value back, players, draft picks whatever (this is not a rule, of course if someone offers a fair package in IYO, you trade them).

If your team wins 60 games, it is because that no mater how talented your players are, they help teams win games. Remember Ariza??? Why did he get the money, and the interest around the league??? because he, regardless of the talent, HE HELPS TEAMS WIN (lucky in the Lakers situation, but he actually helped them). I am not saying that if you are on a losing team, you are not talented, I am saying that teams will not OFFER A FAIR PACKAGE for you, if you are consistently on a losing team.

Of course there are different situations, If you are a star on a mediocre franchise. I am talking about TALENTED PLAYERS, NOT HOF.

Are we talking about Free agency??? I am talking about TRADE VALUE. No team offered a potential young star for Bosh when he was losing in Toronto.

Beasley was not traded for TRADE VALUE, he was dumped because they needed cap space for LBJ, Wade and Bosh.

I understand what some of you would do, you would trade K mart and Scola right now, for potentially a top 10 pick in the 2012 AMAZING DRAFT, and end up with the 15th pick and draft an amazing 21 year old potential solid player.

PeAcE

 

hey was it you that said he would kill himself if we picked mchale?

 

I do, but your post sure doesn't. You said it would be easy to acquire young talent if they were on a bad team for several years. That's not true. Talent is talent, and you're going to have to pay for it whether they're 20-62 or 50-32.

The only way your post makes sense is if you're talking about young ROLE players. Yes, it's easier to trade for Courtney Lee when he's on the crappy Nets and not the NBA Finals Magic. But more role players/depth doesn't solve our issues -- young star potential does, as you said.

Including Rubio in your rant is pointless as he's contributed nothing to the Timberwolves losing ways, so it wouldn't be a situation where they've given up hope on him helping them win games. Beasley should qualify as young star potential as well.

Exactly. Which is why you saying that it's easy to go after young talent on bad teams is stupid. The Timberwolves aren't trading any of their future core to us for scraps because they have a bad record.

 

what is the part of this post that you don´t understand????

I am not saying to go after Beasley type players.

What I am saying is, that because we have Beasley type players right now (talented guys that put up numbers, younger/older), you don´t trade them because we are a losing team (not a rule).

I was not talking about going after these players, I was talking about the TRADE VALUE our players have giving Beasley as an example. No one gives absolutely nothing for Beasley, even tho he is a 20 5 player and has a huge value for Kahn and the t wolves.

KMartin value for Houston >>>>>>> Trade value for any team right now.

Of course you didn´t even bother reading because all you want to do is hate.

PeAcE

 

lol.. I'm starting to realize I'm arguing with a teenager. What does Martin have to do with anything? I didn't even mention him, yet you think I'm hating? Hating on Martin by not mentioning him? Or hating on you for making a bad post?

I never said you WANTED to trade for Beasley or Rubio, I was just responding to you thinking it would be "easy" to go after players like Rubio or Beasley. Your rationale appears to be that because Minnesota has been losing for a few years, it would be easier to acquire players like Rubio or Beasley because they haven't helped their team win many games and thus their trade value is lower. That's just bad logic -- I'm sorry you were wrong.

Bad teams are not going to trade their players with big potential because they've had a bad record with them. You even agree with this:

Yet you still attempt to argue in circles because you refuse to ever concede a point. Sorry bro.

 

WE

WILL

SEE

Rocket River

 

Is the deal done? It isn't 'official' yet on NBA.com ...