[Houston Heights] Tollway Considered Through Neighborhood

Great op-ed in the Chronicle today that outlines why this tollroad is a terribly stupid idea.

In essence, it asks why it's in the best interest of Houston to put the needs of suburbans over the needs of Houstonians.

 

Rocket G-

i live on the westside as well..you're right, Hershey Park is great and still somewhat of a secret to those around town.

 

Well said.

I didn't hear much complaining when the Beltway was being built through neighborhoods on the northwest/west side. I guess those neighborhoods just aren't as 'hip' as The Heights.

 

The railroad track really doesn't have enough right of way, so the road couldn't be built without grabbing additional land.

The railroad right of way from 610 to Durham/Sheppard is wide because of the old railyard that TC Jester goes over. The land between Durham and Sheppard, from the railroad to Memorial, is largely commercial and a lot of it is vacant south of I-10. Memorial from Sheppard to downtown already is a limited access road. The biggest congestion point would be reworking the interchange of Sheppard and Memorial with it's underpass/double bridges. Not a lot of space either between St. Thomas High School and the Depelchin Home.

 

Did Jeff just post an article and not provide a link?!

I don't think this will be anything to worry about. The Heights is far too organized and far too powerful to allow someone to do this to them. You can see it here -- the Toll Authority has made only the first overture at a preamble at an attempt to maybe do something, and everyone is already in arms and has the Chron and the TV news doing stories. They'll be much tougher than the folks fighting the Spur 527 construction.

If we were talking about the historic 3rd Ward, my neighborhood, I regret to say we'd probably lay down and let the Toll Authority tear the neighborhood up. The neighborhood associations don't have large followings, aren't super well organized, don't have the political connections, and won't manage to garner much sympathy from the rest of the city.

 

Uhhhh, "subarbanites" ARE Houstonians. Take a look at a map of the city sometime. It stretches from Kingwood to near Sugarland, Cypress to Clear Lake, Pearland to near the Woodlands... Guess what, those peeps - the millions OUTSIDE the loop but still INSIDE CITY LIMITS - are ALL Houstonians, whether you like it or not.

There are MANY more suburbanite Houstonians than their are "inner loop" Houstonians. Oh, and notice how the inner loopers only count the tony west side inner loop in their equation - they never factor in the needs or problems of the poorer east siders in their talking points about why the "inner loop" is so great. Bet those "inner loopers" living by the port don't think this urban living thing is as great as you do, huh?

Why should the DESIRES of the FEW west side inner loopers, impede the NEEDS of the MANY outside the loopers? Somehow, I think this thread might get moved to the D&D thanks to Vegan's inflammatory post ( an area of this board which I do not have access to) but I'll leave this by saying that just b/c you chose to be a close to dtown Houstonian doesn't mean you're special. Houstonians outside the loop have just as much right to this city's resources as you do.

As I've said before, you can build all the cookie cutter 300k "urban lofts & townhomes" you want, but it won't change the fact that this city is growing rapidly, more of its citizens live outside the west loop than in it, and they need to get dtown. Deal with reality instead of making rash & poorly though-out comments such as the one about "needs of suburbans over the needs of Houstonians."

You're in the city limits? Then you ARE a Houstonian whether GreenVegan agrees or not.

 

Speaking of which, my roommate and I were laughing the other day at the doomsday traffic problems that were supposed to spill over onto W. Alabama, Richmond, etc. No one I've talked to has even noticed a difference.

I have to say I agree with Rocket G on this one, too. I do think that Jeff is arguing more about the placement of the proposed tollway rather than the tollway itself. I don't know enough about the area to determine whether he's right or not, but I do think that the idea at its basic level makes sense.

 

RM, keep in mind though, that the outbound part of the spur will shut down soon as well. I think that means people exiting dtown will have to leave by driving down Richmond & Alabama all the way to Shepherd to get onto 59.

That might not be fun.

 

That's true...forgot about that.

 

The idea of the tollway makes sense, but assuming that the railroad right-ofway is the best solution is wrong.

Once upon a time US 290 (Northwest Frwy) and TX-225 (La Porte Frwy) were supposed to go all the way to downtown. Both plans were scratched off the freeway maps along time ago.

Of course the Bay City Freeway from S. Post Oak and the Loop was scratched too and it is being revived as the Fort Bend Expressway/Tollway or whatever it is being called.

 

The Spur 527 project is temporary. Houston survived the Pierce Elevated being shutdown in one direction.

 

Jeff, your argument can be made much more concisely. You simply don't want this near you.

Special interests will always attempt to argue on the merits of their self interest as opposed to the common good of the people.

1. The Heights is not more important than the millions of Houstonians that battle traffic every day. This alone puts down your argument.

2. There is a rail line already there! A path is already cut, and the real estate that borders the line is accustomed to transportation -- even if it's abandoned.

3. Someone will have to have this in their backyard. The Heights is not River Oaks in terms of property tax base. Their positioning next to downtown makes them a prime candidate.

4. The width of the path is meaningless. This can be adjusted, and certainly has been considered. To think otherwise is wishful thinking and frankly naive.

 

While your carving up Houston neighborhoods, how about straightening out Kirby and putting a bridge over Buffalo bayou so people can get north faster. Originally T.C. Jester was supposed to run all the way to Kirby in River Oaks.

Loop 610 West was also supposed to go down Chimney Rock and not Post Oak. Instead a path was carved out of Memorial Park and Bellaire split in two. You see Tanglewood had a lot more money to fight the project then the common people living in Bellaire at the time or the animals in the park.

20 years ago you could have put another 10 lane freeway down that railroad track and few would have cared. There is a tad bit more money living in the Heights now and I bet it may no longer be the path of least resistance to downtown.

 

I don't blame you for that last post, Jeff. Your position is very hard, if not impossible, to defend.

My points stand.

 

As to point one, I think they envision a RAISED tollway - a la the Westpark - which also had to deal with the same issues, but has done so admirably. It's not like this tollway would be some street level autobahn, with cars doing 70 through day care centers & retirement facilities. Besides, I think Metro has done a fine job of showing us how useless any street level based mode of moving people really is - I would hope TxDOT learned their lesson from the corrupt mess that Metro has become.

As to your second point, THAT does have merit to it, and it - along with the narrowness of the corridor - should be part of the "con" reasons in the debate. Not some sort of romantic notion that The Heights is all of a sudden some sort of French Quarter that needs to be protected at all costs.

Anyway, I hope those of you raising a ruckus over this idea will continue to battle against the forces of concrete & development whenever Houston's poorer and less trendy non-inner-west-loop neighborhoods get raped. Somehow, I doubt you will.

 

BINGO. I was just reading this thread to see if someone else was thinking the same thing. Nice Jorb!

 

Zoning. The most evil word in the Houston urban lexigon, or so many would have you believe. Business interests have fought against it sucessfully for generations in Houston, except for a brief period in the '40's, and they weren't thinking of your quality of life... they were concerned about constrictions on their operations and profits. The fact that zoning was practiced in most US cities, without a demonstrative negative effect on business, was beside the point. They had a good thing going in Houston, they wanted to keep it, and they were, and have been, willing to spend whatever it takes to keep Houston zoning free. Nothing has changed in that regard. Houston, however, has changed tremendously.

The attitude of many of you towards preserving what is left of our heritage is appalling. If you can get to work 10 or 15 minutes sooner, and not have to ride a bus, or car pool, then what the hell? Build that freeway, or that toll road, and who cares if a century of our history falls to the wrecking ball? You'll find an excuse, from somewhere, to justify the destruction, only you won't call it destruction. You'll call it "progress."

I was born and raised in Houston, living there until I was nearly 30, when I moved to Austin. That was about 24 years ago. I've seen a lot of Houston destroyed in my lifetime. What Jeff says about the Heights is true. Some of you have a problem with gentrification? You think it is a Houston phenomenon? I can't afford to live in neighborhoods in Austin, that would otherwise be ideal for my family and I, because of it. If that is the price of preserving the historic inner city areas, in Houston or Austin, I'm not going to complain. At least those areas will be largely preserved for future generations, who won't have to google to find photos of what the city looked like before it destroyed part of itself, in order to "grow."



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