aelliot, Do you have rules for trading picks before the draft? It is correct to say that unsigned players cannot be trading on draft day, correct? Are there any other trade restriction you can think of? And, we are in agreement then that Cato is rookie scale through draft day?
pard, I thought Webber and Hardaway were traded on draft day after they were selected. They wouldn't have been signed at that time. ------------------
correction...i meant to say veterans only, as in free agents. They can't be traded until Aug 1st. [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited May 05, 2000).]
heypartner- I'd agree that the Rockets could be looking to using the pick as a means to an end. But if you're talking about Dreamcasting to catch the Big Fish, Orlando has it all over us. If Orlando's top three pick gives them a significantly better chance at landing Duncan/Hill/whoever, why would they give it to us, regardless of the player package or exemption we present. Landing the Big Fish is far more important to them than it is to us, and they have much more room to work with. We've already got a franchise-level player and his run-n-gun sidekick (if we re-sign him.) Orlando has no franchise players, although they've had a wildly successful season to build on along with Coach of the Year Rivers. This is their summer-make or break time, time to build on the success they've had. These guys are desperate to land a superstar or two. The Rockets, on the other hand, would be doing quite well if we simply re-signed Mobes, Moochie, signed pick #9 (bound to be a good-great player), and got a role player or two with our exeptions. I beleive that the front office will vigorously hunt for ways to sign Duncan, but if Orlando holds any of the cards to doing so (which is what your post suggests), then you can bet the last thing they'd do is trade it to us.
Ive kept quiet most of this thread. but in my opinion unless Swift and / or mihm ( not to get mihm but so the bulls dont draft som1 we want) comes out. im sorry i really doubt either one will. every1 should really stop mentioning swift until he says he is coming out from his own mouth. i dont even think he will. mihm might but unless houston is in love w/ fizer it makes absolutely no sense to trade up for a pick when moiso miles or miller could be at #9. ------------------ --TEX
Nolen - finally a sensible answer to all speculations. This armchair quarterbacking makes my head spin. I enjoy everyone's input though - I bet Rudy loves this too. Remember his comments last off season? ------------------
Texasalsa- The key word is could. Sure, Miller, Moiso, and Miles COULD be there at pick 9. But it seems doubtful that even one falls that far. The Rockets don't want to be in a position where they dont have at least one player they want, and trading up would make them not have to be worried about that. ------------------
It is correct to say that unsigned players cannot be trading on draft day, correct? Maybe I'm not completely understanding your question, but you can't ever trade unsigned players (being that you're talking about veterans) at any time. Are there any other trade restriction you can think of? Just the waiting period associated with players acquired in multi player deals. And, we are in agreement then that Cato is rookie scale through draft day? Yeah, I just don't know when you're allowed to start trading again. Seems like the last couple of years there haven't been any trades finalized prior to the draft. I don't know if this is just coincidence or that teams aren't allowed begin trading until July 1. ------------------
One thing about Duncan and, if it has been mentioned, forgive my re-post, but isn't Houston really in the same boat SA was in before they got a new arena? I mean, Duncan has said several times that he wants to remain in the south close to his native Bahamas (obviously the reason for the Orlando and Miami stuff being discussed), but I doubt that includes Louisville. Granted, I've said before that this is still Houston's team to lose, but doesn't anyone think that the fact that the Rockets could be gone in a couple of years to another city might weigh heavily on the decision-making process of a free agent like Duncan? Just wondering. ------------------ "No one gets out ALIVE!" SaveOurRockets.com
"Don't fear trading Cato for this pick just because there are no centers in the draft. If we get that pick, we can parlay that into a stud center/pf." What "stud center/pf" would you be referring to that the Rockets would have a shot at obtaining? It is going to take a miracle from the Rockets God to land Duncan. Also, another player that hasn't been mentioned in months is T-Mass. Is he a free agent or do we still have him? Yet another piece to the puzzle.... ------------------ We need some meat in the post!
Pops/y'all At the NBA party I attended last month, two NBA execs that I talked to said that they would be surprised if Duncan or Hill is moved. Not to say that Pop's or you guys assuming that Duncan would come here is wrong. God knows that I drank enough Coronas for three people. I could of heard wrong. But I think that I was drunk way after schmoozing. And I would never purposely challenge the legend that is Popeye the Sailor! ANYWAYZ... they told me that if a scenerio develops that they can't sign him, they are definitely going to send him to Orlando. During the conversation, one guy said that if they could, they would build around Duncan and trade Robinson for more backcourt help or a top front line player and possibly move Duncan to center. But the ramifications of that in SA would be...well really bad. Most of the people there said that Grant and Duncan will sign with their respective teams at least one more year if not more. Hill is almost sure of signing a one year deal. Duncan is in the air right now, but they speculate that since the arena bill was passed in anticipation of Duncan staying, Duncan is almost sure of staying with SA for the long term. All this speculation about Duncan might be for not. If anything, the idea of Odom coming here makes more since because the Clippers are so dumb they will probably give him up for crawfish gumbo and crackers. Lucky for me, the NBA is working on opening another NBA Store on the upper west side of Manhattan. Guess who is going to be more aggressive at this party asking questions about the league to post for you lovely people? ------------------ Live Rocketball. Breathe Rocketball. Die with Rocketball. [This message has been edited by Almu (edited May 05, 2000).]
Of irony to note....I just read a report on Miles going pro, and it noted the Rockets were in LOUISVILLE watching him play....the same place they "checked out". No meaning. Also-aelliot: I know Iverson isn't a free agent, he's a Base Year Player. Shoot, I can't find the article. But it said you can't trade BYC for BYC (not technically, but a Sign and trade of Jones for Iverson wouldn't work because of it.) ------------------ Rockets fans wanted at hoopsboards.com Draft Chat, NBA Chat, Team Chat, and more!
Are there any other teams that have the same $4.43 mil trade exemption as we do? What about lesser trade exemptions? ------------------ "People think I live a pampered life, but I work hard to keep up my business."
The amount of the trade exemption is an aggregation of all salary that you've dumped in trades (i.e. traded down in salary). So, it would be different for every team that had it. Indana had a $4M+ exception that it got in the Antonio Davis/Jonathan Bender trade. That exception should be good for a year from the date of that trade. ------------------
Popeye, I have been trying to figure out a few things on various trade scenarios you've mentioned. <OL> [*] Orlando: I understand the possible deal with Orlando, Vancouver and the Rockets, where in essence, we trade our #9 and future Orlando pick for Vancouver's #4 pick with guarantees of getting Swift, as long as Mihm and he come out. What is the "something more" you mention? Is there any possibility we could end up with Doleac somehow in the deal if we sent them KT, or would Orlando let him go? [*] LAC: I'd love to get Odom and Kandi. I personally think that in the future, Odom will be considered the best player from last year's draft. He's languishing in LA. What would the trade have to be? Earlier you mentioned that we'd need to trade Cato, Drew, Williams and maybe KT. That's 4 starters for 2. I've been looking at the salaries, and I don't understand how that would work: (rounded off) Odom 3m, Kandi 3m, Drew 1m, Williams 4m, Cato 6m. What pick were you referring to? Could you amplify? [*] Are we able to pull off both of these deals? [*] Can we do those deals, and still go after Duncan, lets say with Swift, Kandi, Detroit pick and the exception? [/list=a] But if we did those first 2 deals, signed Mobely and Smith, drafted Najera in the second round, we could end up with: Dream/Kandi/Oleac Swift/Rogers/TMass/Najera Odom/Smith/Bullard Anderson/Mobely Francis/Norris What a team! Of course, getting really into fantasy, if we kept KT, then traded Kandi, Swift, and our 4.4m exception for Duncan, then we could have: Duncan/Dream/Miller KT/Rogers/Tmass Odom/Smith/Bullard Anderson/Mobely Francis/Norris Championships for years ... Is this how your dream scenario would play out? ------------------ the more I know, the more I know I don't know...
First question: Sherlock-what Smith are you referring to? On the LAC deal, it'd work, because the Clippers are under the cap. Hey.....if I'm thinking right, we could potentially get a trade exception coupon out of it, right? (trading down in salary) I actually proposed an Orlando deal in the lottery board, where we get the #3 and Doleac and if they want, a cap filler to get further below the cap, for KT, part of the exception if needed, the #9, and the completion of the pick deal they owe us. Doleac wouldn't fit into their plans if they signed Duncan, and they can use KT as a legit PF starter. Little things could also be added from either or both sides. ------------------ Rockets fans wanted at hoopsboards.com Draft Chat, NBA Chat, Team Chat, and more!
NIKEstrad<i/>: <OL>[*] Smith, as in Leon. I know he's been a mess, and I wouldn't want to think of starting him for another few years, but he is a talent that could be worth cultivating over the next couple years. There is now an advantage of picking up HS players because of the new CBA rewarding teams that build through the draft. If we get this group of younger players, and hold on to them, they can jell into a championship team, and we can hold onto them because we could always pay them the most. [*] LAC I didn't think about that. That would be great! and you're right, we'd get another exception. [*] Doleac: I've always liked him, and think he'd fit well on this team. Your post reminded me of how well that could work for us. But, you're right, they probably wouldn't let go of him, unless they thought they had Duncan coming and KT from us. ------------------ the more I know, the more I know I don't know...
Ok, gotcha on Leon.....but he's 6'11'', right? I think he could work as a backup for the whole front court, much like Los did when everyone was healthy. Leon might not be so bad....especially if Detroit gives us their pick, and DeShawn Stevenson came....to have 2 HSers, perhaps DeShawn could learn from Smith's mistakes, and stay on the right track. ------------------ Rockets fans wanted at hoopsboards.com Draft Chat, NBA Chat, Team Chat, and more!
I found this interesting from Michael Murphy's <a href="http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/teams/rockets/">Sporting News Rocket report</a>: "And look for the Rockets to attempt to make a deal to move up in the draft, even if that might be difficult. The Rockets will most likely have the ninth pick, but would like to move up a bit in order to get an athletic small forward or power forward. Mike Miller? Stromile Swift? Kenyon Martin? Any of those would be just fine." ------------------ NOTHING BUT .NET CLUTCHCITY.NET
Dang! I leave town for five days or so, and ya'll bang off 118 posts!!!!!!! Let me answer a couple of things quickly .... 1. I was speculating on the LAC trade(s). I never felt that ALL of the mentioned players (Walt,Cato Drew,KJ,etc...) would all be used in the trade. I would however, personally love to see that happen to get Odom and O'kandi, Nesby, etc... But, again, desirable but not likely. As a side bet, I'll wager that two of the four are gone in trades. 2. I will say again .... I do not suspect Duncan is closer to coming to Houston than any other team as put forth by the sources I have spoken to. I trust their judgements but they are much more enthusiatic and optimistic than I. THEY FEEL he is leaning heavily toward Houston. I have said many times, I FEEL the chances of him being in a Rockets uni are slim. Although several sources have confirmed to me that Houston is one of the teams he is interested in.( See Below #4) 3. As stated many times, all of these rumors, stories on speculative trades involving draft picks ... are contingent on the actual draft selection and the available players declared. Agreements can be made between teams that would go something like: ".... if you get the X pick we would be interested in this type of deal" ... "okay, if you get him signed and you still want to include him in the trade we would deal it this way ....". The purpose is to have each of the teams aware of the bargaining components and the criteria or contingencies for it to be fruitful. 4. For what it ius worth:I Was "Up North" and in LA this past week. There is considerable speculation by media people, sports advisors and at least one owner (who was interested in the availability of Duncan's services) ALL agree that Duncan is not Houston bound. Almost as assuredly these people I spoke to (seperately) felt he would sign in SA or Orlando, with SA getting the edge. Thanks to all for keeping the thread alive and kickin'!
