Houston Chronicle "Why Abortion Rates are up in Bush Years.

I wouldn't try to blame other people's stupid choices on Bush.

He has made PLENTY of stupid choices that we can blame on him, though.

 

What on Earth gave you the impression I was pro death penalty? I think you can make a stronger case for the death penalty than abortion (guilt vs innocence) but I am not in favor of either. I do think abortion is a much bigger issue when you take into consideration how many abortions there are every year vs how many executions.

andymoon,

Don't they give away free condoms at Planned Parenthood?

 

And how much does it cost to raise a child or have an abortion? Much more than the price of a condom. Can't you get them for a quarter or fifty cents in a gas station bathroom?

Folks need to learn, if you can't afford the protection, you certainly can't afford the possible outcome.

 

They give you a few samples, but IIRC (it has been well over a decade since I took a friend to PP) it was like 10 condoms total. I am not saying that we need to deluge the country with rubbers, but they should be much more available, we should do far more education, and the education done needs to be real (read NOT abstinance "education") education.

For example, my wife raves about a book called "Taking Charge of Your Fertility," which is a book recommended to people trying to get pregnant. It explains in detail how to tell when you are fertile, when you cannot get pregnant, and how to keep track of those things. My wife says that if every schoolgirl were to take a course that taught them this book, that teenage pregnancies would drop dramatically, but various groups would **** a hippopotamus if such education was actually put on the table.

Again, I just think that the money and energy that pro-lifers put out there could be much more effectively used in educating people and providing protection so that we reduce unwanted pregnancies, which will have the net effect of reducing abortions over the long term.

 

No, folks need to learn that reality shows that people will have sex whether they can afford contraceptives or not. We can impact abortion rates more effectively by targeting education and low-cost or free contraception at people who are at high risk for unplanned pregnancies.

 

The Catholic Church actively encourages couples to attend classes on NFP (Natural Family Planning) which probably uses the methods described in the book you cite. The classes are generally sponsored by various groups within the Catholic Church. I suspect anyone can sign up for these classes as they are held quite often.

The classes give information as to how to determine when best to achieve preganancy and when best to avoid it. It is more complete and involved than the old "rhythm" method.

The Catholic Church is probaly the biggest "pro-lifer" group you refer to and they ENCOURAGE education. I think everyone who ever intends to have sexual relations should attend these classes. Girls can learn a great deal about monthly changes to their bodies. Boys would benefit as well.

 

That is wonderful. It certainly sounds like the same kind of information that you would find in the book I mention.

The biggest problem I have with the CC regarding this stuff is their intransigence on the issue of contraception.

 

You make it sound like an incurable disease or something.

Is it really the government's job to make sure that loose women can spread their legs for as many men as they like without getting pregnant? Can't they just go down to planned parenthood and pick up their 10 free rubbers every few days?

 

If they encourage education for married adults, good for them. That's a step forward.

If you think the Catholic church would approve of teaching a course of this kind to high school girls, you're crazy. There's an utter refusal to educate teens about sex or provide protection, because that would supposedly giving them the green light to have sex. Instead, it's all about abstinance. This is what I consider head-in-the-sand school of teen sexuality.

Are there any statistics out there on teen pregnancies amongst christians vs. non-christians, or catholics, etc?

 

Off the top of my head the most obvious statistic is US teen pregnancies versus the rest of Western civilization. The US is far in the lead with England a tad behind and every one else way behind.

Whatever the US does, it does not work at all relatively speaking.

Maybe it's English speakers are too stupid to use contraception.

But again, off the top of my head, I believe it's because the US and England adopt more puritanical standards (and share a common puritanical past) for teen sex education versus the rest of Western countries.

 

And you make it sound like every woman who is at high risk for an unplanned pregnancy is nothing more than a street w****.

If the government wants to insert itself into the question of who can have an abortion and who can't, then the government should definitely go the more cost effective route of educating people and providing them with contraceptives, yes.

As soon as the government buts out of our sex lives altogether, that responsibility will be lifted from them, but since that won't happen anytime soon...

A visit to PP is a time consuming process. They do not just hand out free condoms to people who show up. It would be nice if they had the kind of funding that would allow that, though...

 

If the taxpayers are paying to help teens raise children *and* these children have more health problems that we have to pay for because their mom's prenatal habits are poor, we damn well better have a say in how this plays out.

You may not care how your tax dollars are spent, I care about where mine go.

 

I went to Catholic schools from grade 6-12. In either 8th or 9th grade, we had a sex education class once a week. They described the 'rhythm' method way back then. In my later high school years (11 and 12), we openly talked about sexual education type issues in our Theology class.

I don't know current Catholic curricula.

 

I don't know squat about the curriculum in Catholic schools (yet, my mother is talking about sending my son to Catholic school), but I do know that if they tried to teach that level of sex education in public schools, there would be several groups that would go absolutely ballistic.

 

I suspect that the majority of Catholic schools do NOT officially teach things like that now (especially in grade 8). It would not surprise me in the least to see similar discussions (at least "unofficial") in the 11th and 12th grades as I experienced.

I'll check with some of my friends who have kids in Catholic High Schools.

Although your son has a ways to go before he's ready for school (I assume you are talking about your relatively new-borned son), Catholic schools are generally good schools, regardless of your religious leanings. You'll just need to discuss the morality issues you believe in that differ with the Catholic teachings with him. That would probably be a good thing as it would give you an "in" with respect to discussing things you may not normally discuss.

 

I have zero problem with Catholic schools and I agree with you that it will give me a bunch of hooks for conversations that I will want ot have with my son someday (yes, we are talking about the one that is 10 months today).

I have some issues with the Catholic faith, but feel confident that my son will find his spiritual connection one way or another as long as God is a topic of conversation.